[DEV1010] Pet job adjustments

[Duelle]

Korpg is just regurgitating 4 year old arguments. He isn't even disguising it anymore. Really, when's the last time anyone bothered with a 6-man party?

Seeing that it is a good chunk of why job dynamics are the way they are in this game, I think it's a valid point.

It's like the people that tell me that 6-man balance doesn't matter for melee RDM anymore because everyone grinds exp in alliances, despite the fact that in a 6-man party you're still expected to be dedicated cure and refresh whore.

[Dallas]

That's not true with a 4-man group, 6-man group, or 18 man group. When WHM are mandatory what kind of idiots think they need a SMN healing?

I know it's hard to believe, but there are SMN who are actually competent at their job. Tell your SMNs to learn their job.

Ask a stupid question, get a stupidly specific answer.


What's this thread about?

SMN using an emp WS available at L85 being more competent at their job than a WAR using L75 gear they got 5 years ago. I honestly would not be surprised if Korpg started defending Byakko's Axe in a level sync party, so I will just tell you "good point!" and chuckle a little.

[Korpg]

I know it's hard to believe, but there are SMN who are actually competent at their job. Tell your SMNs to learn their job.

So, pray tell, what is your idea of a "competent" SMN? Is it one who does nothing but melee, or one who lets the avatar do all the work?

I honestly would not be surprised if Korpg started defending Byakko's Axe in a level sync party, so I will just tell you "good point!" and chuckle a little.

Of course, you wouldn't know an example if it was handed to you on a silver platter.

My Byakko's Axe statement was just that, an example. Please don't alter my words to fit your needs, like you have been doing the past 4-5 pages on this thread.

[Fyreus]

First off, I have never done anything in a group as SMN/WHM. I am not a healer, I will never be a healer as SMN, and trying to do so is just an insult to SMNs and WHMs everywhere. My SMN is there for two thing, and that is to pop out 5k+ (10k if AF3 set bonus procs) Blood Pacts every 45 seconds, without giving the mob TP in the process, and pulling links off of the tank and having Ramuh tank 3+ mobs at one time if needed.

What you are suggesting as a melee SMN would be to lose 2 of the most essential atmas a DD SMN uses to actually do the type of damage it needs to do. Probably 3, since I doubt you would use Minkin at all either. You also lose 3 of the most essential atmas a tanking SMN needs to have on to actually be able to hold 3+ mobs without dying quickly. Hell, just yesterday I tanked Funeral Apkallu and a MPK attempt from another group to steal our bird by pulling Athamas and having one player die behind us, which Garuda was able to tank both of them with ease. Can you do that while trying to pop out 600+ crit hits?

What you are doing is sending a back line job to the front where it does not belong. While your style of play is acceptable to you, do not refer "lazy SMN" into the equation, because some people might try what you are suggesting and end up wiping their party in the process. If enough people do that, others are going to label SMN as "loljobs" like DRG was way back then and PUPs are now. I don't want your ideas to make SMN into a "loljob."

You realize we all play smn differently? You also realize that you can be replaces by any other class easily in a group? His point is that he's using a different play style that se supports but the current lv75 -20enmity avatar hate mechanics are half sAsed and needs a patch such as every game goes through. Hitting a mob for 34dmg and wearing -9enmity YY body and having fenrir have to hit the same mob for 200ish damage (he pulled) to even get it's attention is a pain tbh.

[Korpg]

You realize we all play smn differently? You also realize that you can be replaces by any other class easily in a group? His point is that he's using a different play style that se supports but the current lv75 -20enmity avatar hate mechanics are half sAsed and needs a patch such as every game goes through. Hitting a mob for 34dmg and wearing -9enmity YY body and having fenrir have to hit the same mob for 200ish damage (he pulled) to even get it's attention is a pain tbh.

If only that was true. He admits gearing up to benefit himself and not the avatar. What he becomes is weakening his avatar while becoming a substandard DD, because he is convinced that "because Emp staff has almost the same damage on it's weapon, it must be for DDing!"

I don't care if he melee's in his parties, its when he calls everyone who doesn't substandard and lazy, that is what bothers me.

[Fyreus]

I gear up to help my avatar about every 47 secs or so tbh so i can kinda understand. What ever i do in the other 53 seconds of time? Put on conserve mp, switch around gear, swap to cure potency if i'm healing, and find a new place to hide if soloing. I kinda don't see the point of wearing anything but avatar attack/acc or perp if i am not ready to BP (that 3 sec pause is enough to macro stuff in) and i have time to idle so i would also melee for mp/damage since for whatever reason we can't /heal. There are too many things they didn't bother to fix so smn is still a lv75 job no matter how many traits we get so we find ways to improve or change our stagnant play style, right?

Notice how melee got more haste, more att, more acc and mages get more mp, more stats and ja assists? We get nothing that scales us up as either the summoner or pet but we get mp over time reduction after 200 crabs, 400 pugils, 999 kirins etc etc so if i can use a WS to restore max mp or do some damage then i would instead of idling in a group.

Calling everyone substandard is pretty petty imho also to be fair.

[Dallas]

So, pray tell, what is your idea of a "competent" SMN? Is it one who does nothing but melee, or one who lets the avatar do all the work?

Are you drunk?

How "competent" do you feel typing "nothing but melee" to someone who gets 1400MP every 2 minutes from a WS? I recommend you seek out the assistance of an average SMN. Even they can tell you what MP is used for.

[Korpg]

I gear up to help my avatar about every 47 secs or so tbh so i can kinda understand. What ever i do in the other 53 seconds of time? Put on conserve mp, switch around gear, swap to cure potency if i'm healing, and find a new place to hide if soloing. I kinda don't see the point of wearing anything but avatar attack/acc or perp if i am not ready to BP (that 3 sec pause is enough to macro stuff in) and i have time to idle so i would also melee for mp/damage since for whatever reason we can't /heal. There are too many things they didn't bother to fix so smn is still a lv75 job no matter how many traits we get so we find ways to improve or change our stagnant play style, right?

Notice how melee got more haste, more att, more acc and mages get more mp, more stats and ja assists? We get nothing that scales us up as either the summoner or pet but we get mp over time reduction after 200 crabs, 400 pugils, 999 kirins etc etc so if i can use a WS to restore max mp or do some damage then i would instead of idling in a group.

Calling everyone substandard is pretty petty imho also to be fair.

There is enough gear out there to have a free avatar even outside of Abyssea. Even without doing any TotM staffs. With /RDM on you can have 3 mp refresh, which is enough to last you for a convert (assuming you also Elemental Siphon). I have not rested as a SMN inside or outside abyssea since 80 cap. Except when I'm weakened, but even then, only once.

Summoners can do outstanding damage without the need of resting their MP anymore. Thanks to Convert, Refresh, 550~ Elemental Siphons, and free avatars without avatar favor, we have become a top tier DD in the game. Add on atmas, and we are unstoppable.

Melee, we can add on Minkin/Raized Ruins/Apoc atmas and deal out instant damage while maintaining our TP (for WW/SW).
Magical, we can add on Minkin/Ultimate/Beyond (or any other +elemental damage) and become great "nukers" although our limitation of 45 seconds still sucks.
Solo, we can add on Ducal Guard ONLY to have 87.5% PDT reduction (BSTs can't even get that high with one atma) at 100% of our pet's life. Include Mounted Champion and there are just a few NMs out there we can't solo. Minkin for keeping MP up without having the need to convert.

And that is another thing.

Are you drunk?

How "competent" do you feel typing "nothing but melee" to someone who gets 1400MP every 2 minutes from a WS? I recommend you seek out the assistance of an average SMN. Even they can tell you what MP is used for.

If you even bothered to gear right you wouldn't need 1400 MP every 2 minutes. Having avatars out that costs you 13 mp per tick with Blood Pacts that cost you 176 (and 96 since you would need the cures badly from AoEs) every 45 seconds would make you have to have that 1400 mp every 2 minutes. What exactally do you give in return for your "uber melee" damage? Asking the WHM to waste 150 (135 if they /SCH) MP to raise you and keep from curing the tank? A higher chance of wiping the party you are in? Is it really that worth it? I rather HELP with the raising than NEED the raise myself.

[Malamasala]

Korpg, you do realize you are arguing against someone who is actually doing it successfully, right? I'm pretty sure that if Dallas was in fact dying every 2 minutes and getting raises, he'd not suggest that way of playing.

Just like the issue with bumblebees not being able to fly, you have to accept it when someone actually pulls it through.

I was recently having fun meleeing in abyssea after the stat cap raises. Was fun hitting IT monsters for 350 crits. I'm sure real melee jobs hit even harder, but 350 damage is still decent for a SMN.

[Korpg]

Korpg, you do realize you are arguing against someone who is actually doing it successfully, right? I'm pretty sure that if Dallas was in fact dying every 2 minutes and getting raises, he'd not suggest that way of playing.

Just like the issue with bumblebees not being able to fly, you have to accept it when someone actually pulls it through.

I was recently having fun meleeing in abyssea after the stat cap raises. Was fun hitting IT monsters for 350 crits. I'm sure real melee jobs hit even harder, but 350 damage is still decent for a SMN.

If that was true that he wasn't dying like he states in this thread then he is lying in that thread. If he states that he doesn't die because of the "uber damage" as stated at the first part of this thread, then he is lying in this thread.

Either way, there are too many inconstancies in both threads that would support his argument.