[DEV1010] Pet job adjustments

[Korpg]

Korpg, you do realize you are arguing against someone who is actually doing it successfully, right? I'm pretty sure that if Dallas was in fact dying every 2 minutes and getting raises, he'd not suggest that way of playing.

Just like the issue with bumblebees not being able to fly, you have to accept it when someone actually pulls it through.

I was recently having fun meleeing in abyssea after the stat cap raises. Was fun hitting IT monsters for 350 crits. I'm sure real melee jobs hit even harder, but 350 damage is still decent for a SMN.

If that was true that he wasn't dying like he states in this thread then he is lying in that thread. If he states that he doesn't die because of the "uber damage" as stated at the first part of this thread, then he is lying in this thread.

Either way, there are too many inconstancies in both threads that would support his argument.

[Dallas]

I've already posted the next step solution, just not for you. I no longer have to spend a few seconds the Korpg "do nothing" route. Took me 5 days to work around breaking SMN.

Mala, if you break the job, I'll show you the next step.

Korpg, all that avatar gear is now MACRO gear. I know, it's hard for you to imagine a macro that could put on avatar attack gear and use a BP all at once, then another macro that could put all that useless perp gear away a couple seconds later. Macros are for advanced players, don't worry about it.

[Korpg]

I've already posted the next step solution, just not for you. I no longer have to spend a few seconds the Korpg "do nothing" route. Took me 5 days to work around breaking SMN.

Mala, if you break the job, I'll show you the next step.

Korpg, all that avatar gear is now MACRO gear. I know, it's hard for you to imagine a macro that could put on avatar attack gear and use a BP all at once, then another macro that could put all that useless perp gear away a couple seconds later. Macros are for advanced players, don't worry about it.

I'm surprised you know anything about macros. I mean, you're demeanor towards others who disagree with you signifies a "my way or highway" attitude that new players generally have. I know, I used to have one. Then I saw somebody do something that was better than me and I opened my eyes to the possibility for improvement, unlike you have shown.

Why yes, I have mentioned macros. How else am I going to get all this -perp gear and -BP gear into one set? Thought even somebody with your observation for detail would notice that.

But you aren't breaking a job. At least, not with the intention of actually doing something good. I fail to understand how you can justify expending so much mp like that, not limited to yours of course. You will be needing cures. If you cast cure on yourself, that is stopping you from getting the TP you so despairingly need. So you can't cast cure on yourself, you require others to do it for you. Is your increased damage output justify the increased need for curing not only yourself, but other members of your party, since by hitting the mob, you increased that mob's TP and ability to use a TP move, which on most mobs, are generally AoE damage TP moves? You can't buff yourself, I don't think that Aerial Armor would absorb any of that move at all, since Blink is not the same as Utsusemi. Plus, you need to also cure your avatar, otherwise the time you spend having to recast your avatar is also time wasted from getting TP from the mob with your staff.

I'm sorry, but I don't see any justification in a SMN melee. Avatar melee doesn't matter, because the only drawback in losing an avatar is 5 seconds needed to recast that same avatar. Not keeping the WHM from curing you, or raising another person, or anything serious.

My "do nothing" route is the one that does just as much damage as an avatar/SMN combo, if not more thanks to Set bonus from Emp+2 armor (I doubt you even gotten any of those, they benefit the avatar, not the player, so to you it would seem as a waste, as stated in the above quote).

I have shown everyone here why not meleeing as a SMN is beneficent to a party. I have yet to see your argument into why a SMN should melee, or at least a reasonable argument. Only thing I have seen from you is your whole "my way or highway" attitude.

[Dallas]

I'm surprised you know anything about macros.

Yes, and you are surprised that a SMN with unlimited MP doesn't need -perp gear on full time. Get used to it or stop talking to top-end SMN.

[Korpg]

Yes, and you are surprised that a SMN with unlimited MP doesn't need -perp gear on full time. Get used to it or stop talking to top-end SMN.

Your method of "unlimited MP" is only one method.

Maybe if you look hard enough, you will find another method of "unlimited MP" that has a lot less risk and a lot more damage output than the one you propose others to do. Your "my way or highway" attitude is annoying, and I wish you would stop referring yourself as a "top-end" SMN. Because your limited style of thinking strongly suggests otherwise.

[Neisan_Quetz]

What the hell is this crap, did I just not explain it in my last damn post. Stop the idiocy, get better mages if you keep dying unless the monster has high damage AoE, not that difficult. I die all the time in PUG because I'm the only one there actually doing damage and never getting cured despite tanking the damn mob.

I also rarely go to PUG anymore.

[Panthera]

Snarl for summoner as an inherent part of the job would be a good idea.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Snarl for summoner as an inherent part of the job would be a good idea.

I agree.



Superfluous text.

[Malamasala]

You will be needing cures. If you cast cure on yourself, that is stopping you from getting the TP you so despairingly need. So you can't cast cure on yourself, you require others to do it for you. Is your increased damage output justify the increased need for curing not only yourself, but other members of your party, since by hitting the mob, you increased that mob's TP and ability to use a TP move, which on most mobs, are generally AoE damage TP moves?

Every melee job needs cures. Since Summoner is a melee job, that is not a problem, just a fact. (And it is as much a melee as a BLU. Both having MP.)

It is all pretty simple really.
A) The mob uses single target attacks. SMN will only need cures when they pull hate by doing more damage than all other melee jobs. (Good luck)
B) The mob uses AOE attacks. All melee jobs will need curaga, and SMN will benefit from it as well. Slight danger if you actually take a load more damage than the melee so you don't get fully cured when they do.

I'd also like to point out that TP feeding is still a moot discussion point. It is like sitting here discussing dual wielding axes on WAR. It's over. Past tense. Not valid. If TP feeding was an issue, DRGs for example would not be allowed to have wyverns summoned. In fact if it was an issue, BP + release would be the ONLY damage methods since it is the only TP free damage method. As soon as you let a single person TP on it, you have already worsened the situation by far more than adding a SMN melee ever will. (Unless said SMN is the only melee, in which case I hope they can tank)

Mala, if you break the job, I'll show you the next step.

I'm pretty sure you are a taru. What works for you with for example %MP back from Myrkr might not work as well for me on Mithra.

[Korpg]

Every melee job needs cures. Since Summoner is a melee job, that is not a problem, just a fact. (And it is as much a melee as a BLU. Both having MP.)

It is all pretty simple really.
A) The mob uses single target attacks. SMN will only need cures when they pull hate by doing more damage than all other melee jobs. (Good luck)
B) The mob uses AOE attacks. All melee jobs will need curaga, and SMN will benefit from it as well. Slight danger if you actually take a load more damage than the melee so you don't get fully cured when they do.

I'd also like to point out that TP feeding is still a moot discussion point. It is like sitting here discussing dual wielding axes on WAR. It's over. Past tense. Not valid. If TP feeding was an issue, DRGs for example would not be allowed to have wyverns summoned. In fact if it was an issue, BP + release would be the ONLY damage methods since it is the only TP free damage method. As soon as you let a single person TP on it, you have already worsened the situation by far more than adding a SMN melee ever will. (Unless said SMN is the only melee, in which case I hope they can tank)

Yes, every melee job needs cures. But SMN is not a melee job. Our damage doesn't come from whacking a mob with a staff. It comes from our avatar, which is not only replenishable, but can deliver outstanding damage on its own. The avatar's TP feed to the mob is completely justifiable because of the amount of damage the avatar gives, plus the Blood Pact moves that can use the TP the avatar gains from meleeing. What Dallas proposes is that he gains TP from the mob just to keep his avatar out. The cost to keep his avatar out requires him to melee and do a WS that does 0 damage to the mob. Is his melee justifying enough for the TP feed he gives to the mob? He isn't doing any additional damage with his WSs, and his melee hits are slightly less than his avatar, if he hits at all. Plus, given the need for more cures, that is stopping the WHM from curing other melees that might need them. If he melees a mob that does a lot of AoE moves, thats just one more person in the area that needs the cures. He would either have to stop meleeing to cure himself (or his party if he is /WHM, but he already admits that he needs to be /SAM to do any damage output that the proposed) which would lower his DoT since he would have to not attack.

As for the WAR dualwielding and DRG examples, look at the damage done to the mob by dualwielding, and wyvern's DoT. Yeah, not that great for the wyvern, but still a lot more than damage than a SMN melee. Plus, the wyvern can "WS" every time the DRG WSs. So thats additional spike damage to include. Plus, lets not forget that wyverns already come with Subtle Blow as a job trait, so they won't feed as much TP as a melee that doesn't have any access to Subtle Blow, like WARs or DRKs.

In situations that SMNs would have to melee, as in Dallas's case, he would have to be in a party. No way in the world could he survive meleeing any NMs worth fighting, even half the NMs out there not worth fighting. His MP wouldn't survive long enough.