[DEV1010] Pet job adjustments

[Dallas]

I think the developers need to look more closely how pet jobs have been abandoned by the traditional role playerbase. BST and SMN in particular have been forced to go do their own thing, and we do it very well. PUP seems to have disappeared from Abyssea entirely.

The problem is, that pet owners get EVERY buff available except COR pet buffs, and pets only get Atma and COR buffs. Pets do not benefit from the same gear that buffs the owner. Pets alone are not as powerful as a single WAR/MNK/NIN/etc. Pet owners alone are not as powerful. When you buff either the pet or the master but never both, these jobs fall WAY behind a job that gets the full benefit.

The effect is that the pet owner could be the more powerful than the pet. For DRG, this is intended. For BST, it's always been close. For SMN, it's just crazy that the player can pull hate off the avatar.

I think a few key adjustments would make the whole experience much more enjoyable for pet jobs:

1) Allow /BST subbed Snarl to work for Avatars, Wyvern and Automatons. I really don't think DRG would use it, but why not show them the love too?
2) Allow all avatar buffs/heals to at least hit other avatars, but I vote for all pets. 2 Garudas should be able to heal each other.
3) Put back in the code that allowed pets to benefit from DNC Sambas. We loved this "error."
4) Enhance COR pet rolls to account for the fact that no player will benefit from any rolls.
5) Introduce AOE pet food that works on all pets in the pt.
6) Please please please introduce armor for SMN, BST, DRG, and PUP that equally buffs both the player and the pet.

Specifically planning to buff an Avatar for Haste, I can reach 30% pet haste with Hastega, Augmented hat, and Atma of the Omniscient. This comes at the expense of both the pet and the master. This expense does not exist for jobs that can easily reach the 80% delay reduction cap.

Pet jobs are not weak, compared one by one to other jobs, but they have been left out of nearly every benefit received through teamwork.

[Glamdring]

They could just extend our cruor buffs to pets, too. I don't know about you, but my pet consistently pulls hate off any player-regardless of job-not in full AF3 +2 or under the effect of a brew; but I have pet Acc/Atk armor and Emp weaps, not the normal -pdt set. Actually, I usually need to call my pet off to keep from burning through Jugs or food. Also, with the pet buffs I never take hate from my pet unless it gets slept and I choose not to cure it.

[Valmur]

Can't say I encountered that problem yet but I have farsha, attack 2-4axe and +2 everything and I constantly need to pull pet off monsters like Glamdring says

[lowkey]

The problem with bst is that the developers have gone to great lengths to discourage/prevent us from charming. Our defining job ability doesn't work at all in Abbyssea areas--unless SE originally intended for charm to be a quick claim tool only. If they had of disabled any other job's main ability like that, people would be raising hell over it.

[Korpg]

Wait, you pull hate off of your avatar? Your avatar's Blood Pacts must really suck if you can pull hate off of an avatar, including meleeing, which I know you are so fond of doing while you are a SMN.

Before you say that avatars are ment to tank, think about it for a minute. Do you know of any avatar that has the ability to provoke? Or, outside of doing any BP:Rs, take hate off of a group of people and place it directly on the avatar? Only way that an avatar can keep constant hate is for that avatar to, you know, do decent damage, something along the lines of 2k damage every 45 seconds along with hits in between those 45 seconds. If you are doing that and still taking hate away from the avatar, take off that enmity + gear you have wearing, because that is the only way you would be able to take hate off of your avatar. Unless you do something stupid, like go as SMN/WAR and provoke every 30 seconds to keep your avatar alive while the mob beats the heck out of you....

[Dallas]

Wait, you pull hate off of your avatar? Your avatar's Blood Pacts must really suck if you can pull hate off of an avatar, including meleeing, which I know you are so fond of doing while you are a SMN.

Before you say that avatars are ment to tank, think about it for a minute. Do you know of any avatar that has the ability to provoke? Or, outside of doing any BP:Rs, take hate off of a group of people and place it directly on the avatar? Only way that an avatar can keep constant hate is for that avatar to, you know, do decent damage, something along the lines of 2k damage every 45 seconds along with hits in between those 45 seconds. If you are doing that and still taking hate away from the avatar, take off that enmity + gear you have wearing, because that is the only way you would be able to take hate off of your avatar. Unless you do something stupid, like go as SMN/WAR and provoke every 30 seconds to keep your avatar alive while the mob beats the heck out of you....

Re: Unless I do something stupid...

I use Hvergelmir for 600 damage critical for a normal swing. Before, I was dealing 200 damage per crit, up to 4 times per attack round. I only use 36% haste because /SAM is suicidal. The ONLY way to live is to stop attacking or get a monster critical hit BP from Garuda. That usually kills the mob, leaving 45 seconds before I can do it again. One hit without a BP will pull hate.

Please, try to get somewhere in the ballpark of my damage capabilities before telling me I need to sub /WAR and provoke to get hate. It's VERY easy to do, and you obviously haven't tried. I've been doing it since my antlion trial for my OA3. Good weapon, lots of haste, capped staff skill. Get to it.

Can't say I encountered that problem yet but I have farsha, attack 2-4axe and +2 everything and I constantly need to pull pet off monsters like Glamdring says

BST have Snarl, and it is used all the time. My suggestion is to give SMN, PUP and DRG access to the skill when subbed.

[Korpg]

Re: Unless I do something stupid...

I use Hvergelmir for 600 damage critical for a normal swing. Before, I was dealing 200 damage per crit, up to 4 times per attack round. I only use 36% haste because /SAM is suicidal. The ONLY way to live is to stop attacking or get a monster critical hit BP from Garuda. That usually kills the mob, leaving 45 seconds before I can do it again. One hit without a BP will pull hate.

Please, try to get somewhere in the ballpark of my damage capabilities before telling me I need to sub /WAR and provoke to get hate. It's VERY easy to do, and you obviously haven't tried. I've been doing it since my antlion trial for my OA3. Good weapon, lots of haste, capped staff skill. Get to it.

Sorry, I won't gimp myself on what my actual job is supposed to be when I'm in a party as SMN. Which is to provide both the support needed for the party and outstanding damage without having to have one more person for the WHM to have to worry about.

600 crits? I get 1k crits on my WAR. Why should I do anything in a party situation where I needed to be at my best come as something that does not remotely resemble a damage dealer, at least not in the position you are referring to. And also, while I'm WAR, I can do nice things as being able to proc red/blue, tank, and keep the mages alive, while still taking hits like a pro. You even admitted it, you can't take hits at all.

If I'm a Summoner during an event where they need me for a particular purpose, as in pulling, doing outstanding damage without feeding the mob TP, or helping to support everyone, I do that job, and I do it well. I don't try to be somebody I'm not. I have other jobs to do physical damage in massive quantities.

Go level WAR, and put your time into getting a Ukon. At least that will be one weapon not wasted.

[Dallas]

600 crits? I get 1k crits on my WAR. Why should I do anything in a party situation where I needed to be at my best come as something that does not remotely resemble a damage dealer, at least not in the position you are referring to. And also, while I'm WAR, I can do nice things as being able to proc red/blue, tank, and keep the mages alive, while still taking hits like a pro. You even admitted it, you can't take hits at all.

I love this argument. It's a fabulous argument. Now, I want you to be ABSOLUTELY SURE you never admit to me that you have ever cast Cure IV as a SMN/WHM. If you do, the math goes something like this:

600/1000 = 60% = fake DD
400/1200 = 33% = fake healer
600/1200 = 50% = fake healer throwing all SMN gear out

Yes, WAR hit more, but WHM cure more. It gets better... today I was breaking 700 damage with ease (769 is my new record), so I have not found my potential yet. Retribution broke 1600. I'm working through the kinks of an obviously superior weapon, which if you will notice, has 0% cure potency.

This thread is for things that are wrong with pet jobs. I guess we can add "fix lazy SMN" to the list.

[Korpg]

I love this argument. It's a fabulous argument. Now, I want you to be ABSOLUTELY SURE you never admit to me that you have ever cast Cure IV as a SMN/WHM. If you do, the math goes something like this:

600/1000 = 60% = fake DD
400/1200 = 33% = fake healer
600/1200 = 50% = fake healer throwing all SMN gear out

Yes, WAR hit more, but WHM cure more. It gets better... today I was breaking 700 damage with ease (769 is my new record), so I have not found my potential yet. Retribution broke 1600. I'm working through the kinks of an obviously superior weapon, which if you will notice, has 0% cure potency.

This thread is for things that are wrong with pet jobs. I guess we can add "fix lazy SMN" to the list.

First off, I have never done anything in a group as SMN/WHM. I am not a healer, I will never be a healer as SMN, and trying to do so is just an insult to SMNs and WHMs everywhere. My SMN is there for two thing, and that is to pop out 5k+ (10k if AF3 set bonus procs) Blood Pacts every 45 seconds, without giving the mob TP in the process, and pulling links off of the tank and having Ramuh tank 3+ mobs at one time if needed.

What you are suggesting as a melee SMN would be to lose 2 of the most essential atmas a DD SMN uses to actually do the type of damage it needs to do. Probably 3, since I doubt you would use Minkin at all either. You also lose 3 of the most essential atmas a tanking SMN needs to have on to actually be able to hold 3+ mobs without dying quickly. Hell, just yesterday I tanked Funeral Apkallu and a MPK attempt from another group to steal our bird by pulling Athamas and having one player die behind us, which Garuda was able to tank both of them with ease. Can you do that while trying to pop out 600+ crit hits?

What you are doing is sending a back line job to the front where it does not belong. While your style of play is acceptable to you, do not refer "lazy SMN" into the equation, because some people might try what you are suggesting and end up wiping their party in the process. If enough people do that, others are going to label SMN as "loljobs" like DRG was way back then and PUPs are now. I don't want your ideas to make SMN into a "loljob."

[Dfoley]

As a pup I would settle for
1) A set of pet gear
2) Crour/group buffs to affect the pet (protectra, hastega, sambas, bard songs etc)
3) Improved ai

#3 specificly is god awful, using maneuvers to choose a ws is such a bad idea, and healing status ailments over casting cure is silly. Not to mention spaming aspir every 20% just cause your at 75% mp.