Inquiry to the Devs

[Devrom]

Wrong. Discussion on melee has gone on for years. Yes, you had the bandwagon jumpers who were happy for the fast invites, but the melee camp has always existed and trying to push for melee adjustments. The benefit of having these forums is that at least our complains and discussions are taking place right at their doorstep, whereas before it was just the fansites where the community reps could conveniently ignore our discussion threads.

people from all kind of jobs ask for something now and then, it doesnt mean they are seriously expecting a big overhaul unless the extreme conditions like the uber rng nerf.

It never made me happy because it was not the magic swordsman I had signed up to play more than 7 years ago. Also, everyone needed RDM because you only have two (three witrh COR) ways to regenerate MP before all that +refresh gear comes into play. BRD happened to be stupidly rare, so people always went for the next best thing.

refresh isn't the only useful buff the rdm can offer <.<

Stances could very easily fix this and make both camps happy.

i agree that stances can make most rdms happy just for the change alone.

What abyssea did is bring to light all the shortcomings of RDM as a class. Yes, it was meant to be FFXI's last hurrah, but it did that as well. And instead of fixing things so that RDM can finally be a true working class (not a replacement for a WHM or a BRD), we seem to be going back to more of the same.

actually, it is even worse inside unless you get the chance to play the DD as long as the situation of the group allows. as we all know, most NMs are immune to slow or para or both and cure 4 is not cutting it

Repeat after me: Solo is irrelevant in a game built from the ground up on partying.

repeat after me: if you really wanna be that good of a DD, just level a real DD. i couldn't hold myself not to say this but after all the similar comments, there is not really much choice... yes, i am showing my true face ; ;

and btw, SE have never given you the guarantee that rdm will be an effective DD in group play. fencers are not warriors. it is simple as that. when you first start playing rdm, you should have taken a closer look at the "mage" part of the name and then decide if you really want to play as one. if war was obviously weaker than the other DDs, then i would agree that it doesn't make any sense.

if there was a war with a hundreds of fencers fighting on the field instead of real soldiers in real life, it would have been really fun to watch... (actually that would be fun in ffxi as well) but again, i am not saying that SE hasn't underlooked rdm as a fencer. E skill in parrying, fencer trait being given to war, bst and brd etc. what i am saying is people shouldn't expect that much in DD aspect.

sorry for the wall of text <.<

[Carth]

insta-cast nukes while using enspells

I got a kick outta that one.

When I see the melee threads I just see that people are voicing their concerns over the job. As it stands now there's nothing unique to it outside of Addle. It's obvious SE wants to keep a tight lid on Enfeebling Magic, so our mastery is "meh" most the time, and Paralyze/Slow/Blind are really the only enfeebles that matter, Paralyze/Slow more than Blind. As it stands people just doesn't know what SE is going to do with the job.

The melee threads are mostly harmless, but of course I don't believe anything will come outta them (and the only reason why I post on them is to give one honest post then troll for the rest of them). However I'm sure anyone with a good sense of reason will say they don't want RDM to be as strong as specialized DDs. As I said before, I don't care how people want to play RDM, not from the melee enthusiasts, not from the mage enthusiasts or anyone else. I just want RDM to have a good update. Fact is, I'll probably still play it like I am now.

I will say one thing though. Right now the usual remark to RDM melee is "Go play a real DD job." Well, I can say:

"You wanna nuke? Go play a real nuke job(BLM, SCH)."
"You wanna heal? Go play a real healing job (WHM)."
"You wanna do both? Go play a real hybrid job (DNC, BLU, SCH)."

And as it stands now those remarks are completely warranted because RDM has nothing worthwhile.

[Seriha]

So, if we wanna DD, level a "real DD". If we wanna cure under that mentality, we really should level WHM. If we wanna nuke, BLM's the go to. Buffing would obviously go to BRD, COR, or SMN. So again, can you answer what point there is to RDM, or are we gonna cling to the "Jack of All Trades, Suck at them All!" line of balance-mongering? If you wanna backpedal and be like, "Well, uh... I'm not sure how you could make it work, then..." then don't even enter the conversation.

Edit: Ninja'd! D:

[Devrom]

So, if we wanna DD, level a "real DD". If we wanna cure under that mentality, we really should level WHM.

yes, i did. you should too for pure healing and no, rdm is still a great healer outside abyssea.

If we wanna nuke, BLM's the go to.

depends but unless i really need to kite/nuke something in a safer and steadier way as rdm, yes

Buffing would obviously go to BRD, COR, or SMN.

i would pick rdm before any of those for support outside. brd was only essential in merit parties and people looked for brd first because they were forced to do so due to the rarity not because their contribution was any greater than rdm who had to spam cures, haste, refresh non stop, it wasn't, at least for your average merit party which was the majority. can call it 50-50 (not going into number crunching) distribution for duty if you will.

So again, can you answer what point there is to RDM, or are we gonna cling to the "Jack of All Trades, Suck at them All!" line of balance-mongering? If you wanna backpedal and be like, "Well, uh... I'm not sure how you could make it work, then..." then don't even enter the conversation.

i am not saying they should make it work to begin with. imo, it is pretty good in theory but not really so in practice. i am saying that being a "true" jack of all trades is not a good thing in an mmo in the end, while being fun and all to some extent and i would prefer to be a very useful mage while being a week DD to being a mediocre mage and a mediocre DD. some unreasonable stuff the OP had mentioned should definitely see an update but say, turning enspells into enspells of doom? no, just no.

edit: tbh, if you are advocating the rdm being jack of all trade, you should be complaining about the enmity nerf before the DD aspect being week. before the nerf, rdm was the best tank out there in the right hands and now, you can not seriously (couldnt find a better word) tank at all.

[Supersun]

And my BLM's enfeebles, despite all the gear I carry for it, don't even approach the potency of my RDM's enfeebles.

Why are you casting Slow and Paralyze as Blm?

[Duelle]

repeat after me: if you really wanna be that good of a DD, just level a real DD.

This is a stock response. I've heard it enough to know you have nothing better to actually say. Hybrids have multiple roles, and they should be viable if you really want to use them to their fullest. RDM is far from this because the only real benefit a RDM brings is extra cures and refresh. Enfeebles have not made or broken a group's ability to clear a boss fight. Our nukes are second-rate. Our melee is a joke. I don't know about you, but we're way past the point where we should shut up and heal. Melee should be more than just a solo toy.

and btw, SE have never given you the guarantee that rdm will be an effective DD in group play. fencers are not warriors. it is simple as that. when you first start playing rdm, you should have taken a closer look at the "mage" part of the name and then decide if you really want to play as one. if war was obviously weaker than the other DDs, then i would agree that it doesn't make any sense.

The old and repeated "mage" argument. Nice try there, though as Seriha put so well, "better tell them BLUs to go home, too".

Yes, the ideology behind the suggestions and ideas in the melee thread come from various directions, and some do indeed stand on their own and are unable to mesh with other ideas. This is fine because we're basically kicking ideas around on how to either improve melee overall or integrate it into what is currently expected of us. The goal is the make our swords worth a damn. Doesn't matter if they go with Swords' suggestions, or my own, or Seriha's, or Carth's, or Supersun's, or anyone else who contributed to that thread, so long as we reach the actual goal.

[Supersun]

if war was obviously weaker than the other DDs, then i would agree that it doesn't make any sense.

Because Red Mage being weaker at melee then White Mage and soon to be Bard makes a lot of sense as well.

[Tamarsamar]

on the other hand i could theorize that se simply troll faced us with the same overall accuracy.

Making a Job Trait called "Fencer" and then giving it to Bards instead of Red Mages was troll-facing us.

The Black Magic Enfeeble nerf (and soon-to-be-implemented Curing nerf), utterly decimating our ability to generate hate even if our lives depended on it, was troll-facing us (or for that matter, anybody who wasn't a Paladin).

S-E, Y U NO STOP TROLLING RDMS?

[Seriha]

I'd hold on the whole "END OF DAYS!" aspect of Tranquil Heart until we see what it does. For all we know, we'll only get level 1. That might be -5 Enmity for cures. Okay, so you change your gear some so you'll have more +Enmity on. Done. Now, the Black Magic aspect was pretty stupid, especially if you consider people /RDM or /DRK getting full enmity for debuffs they very rarely landed, if ever. Ideally they could've made it so you only got full enmity if it landed, but then that's also a bit of a tank nerf since you'd have to wait until stuff wore off to try again.

[Duelle]

I'd hold on the whole "END OF DAYS!" aspect of Tranquil Heart until we see what it does. For all we know, we'll only get level 1. That might be -5 Enmity for cures. Okay, so you change your gear some so you'll have more +Enmity on. Done. Now, the Black Magic aspect was pretty stupid, especially if you consider people /RDM or /DRK getting full enmity for debuffs they very rarely landed, if ever. Ideally they could've made it so you only got full enmity if it landed, but then that's also a bit of a tank nerf since you'd have to wait until stuff wore off to try again.

This is why I feel RDM should get Flash back. Still, the healer trait should not be something that's on all the time, which is where most of the ire is coming from, IMO. Sadly, there's not many ways to generate emnity as is unless they start tossing in spells designed only to generate emnity to cover the gap created by cures. Seeing that PLD is unnaffected by this, I have a feeling that is not on their priority list.