AMMO! please

[wish12oz]

The good ones were!

Good shurikens being hard to get has nothing to do with the fact that you lose 6+ attacks worth of damage and tp gain to throw 1 shuriken. The shuriken would need to do more damage then 6 attacks, and gain more tp then 6 attacks to even be useful, and guess what, they don't do that much. So regardless of difficulty to obtain, throwing was still terrible. Even if shurikens were added with 300 base damage, and cost 1gil/stack, it wouldn't be worth the inventory to carry them around or worth the loss of DPS to use them.

Here's the math:

Shurikens have a 192 delay.
Kannagi+Kamome have a combined (210+180) 390 delay. (this is what I use and is best ATM, so this is the delay we will use for purposes of mathing out delay)
When you hit the delay reduction cap of 80%, this becomes a new delay of 78.
78+78=156, you get slightly more then 2 melee attacks rounds per throw.(throwing delay is 192)
with apoc, /war, brutal, eponas you have triple attack+18%, double attack+18%, which means 54% of the time, you get an extra attack per melee round.
So at +54% melee attacks per round, every time you attack, you get 1 extra attack, because you attack twice every round.
you get slightly more then 2 attack rounds per throw, you get 3 attacks per round.
Your throwing damage needs to be slightly better then 6 melee attacks and give as much tp as 6 melee attacks to be on par with just meleeing.

25% gear haste, 50% DW, marchx2 and haste spell is all that's required to reach -80% delay btw~
Those things are also really easy to get on NIN.

[Miera]

I just don't get Synergy. Sure it is the best way to craft now but not many people have it leveled. Why? because you have to basically level every craft (lots of gil) to get it up there and even then I still don't understand Synergy........ Its too confusing. D:

[Greatguardian]

The biggest problem with Oberon's Bullets hasn't quite been addressed. Yes, it does require multiple synths (which sucks), and selling them as singles was popular early on (which also sucks), but all of the synthing would have been worth it for a Consumable market if it weren't for one thing:

Fool's Gold Ore only drops from Campaign Unions.

Yeah...

Fix ridiculously tedious/impossible to get materials and you'll fix (or at least considerably help) the ammunition market.

[Elexia]

SE's problem: Making Ammo synergy related.
Player's problem: Majority don't care for synergy.

Solution: Add NPCs that sell the damn Iron and Steel ammo. Even guildshops sell the level 22 Bullets, so the argument can't be it will kill the economy. The reason CORs don't shoot is..what do we use for ammo? Water balloons?

[Malamasala]

Here's the math:

Which just proves that throwing isn't bad, but haste is so terribly broken without a reasonable cap. At most you should do 3 attacks in the time it takes to throw a shuriken. Past that you are just breaking the game balance.

[Karbuncle]

Which just proves that throwing isn't bad, but haste is so terribly broken without a reasonable cap. At most you should do 3 attacks in the time it takes to throw a shuriken. Past that you are just breaking the game balance.

Technically it proves that Throwing is bad because of haste.

Are you suggesting we Nerf haste to give throwing a use ^^?

If not why argue.

[Mirage]

Stuff

Throwing not taking off isn't something that happened within the last year or two. There was a time in this game when ninjas didn't actually attack 500 times per second like now.

Who knows, had it been affordable from the beginning of, maybe more people would have liked it, leading to SE improving it more over the years. Seeing as historically no one bothered with it because it was like throwing solid gold bars at the enemies, it only makes sense that SE improved ninja's melee capabilities more than their ranged capabilities.

For the record, I'm not suggesting that we nerf haste. Trying to give nin a reason to use shuriken now is probably a lost cause, but if it was taken care of when the job was still young, it wouldn't necessarily have had to turn out that way.

[wish12oz]

Throwing not taking off isn't something that happened within the last year or two. There was a time in this game when ninjas didn't actually attack 500 times per second like now.

Who knows, had it been affordable from the beginning of, maybe more people would have liked it, leading to SE improving it more over the years. Seeing as historically no one bothered with it because it was like throwing solid gold bars at the enemies, it only makes sense that SE improved ninja's melee capabilities more than their ranged capabilities.

what is this i dont even............

Early in the game is the only time throwing is good and when it should be used. Up to lvl 40 throwing shurikens so badly outparses every other damage dealing aspect in the game. At 40 the NIN ni spells are a bit better I believe, but its been so long I forget now, a bit later it's back to throwing til you can get haste gear. And at low lvls, the shurikens sold by NPCs are pretty cheap! And ninjas always attacked super fast, it's just gotten 10% DW (af3+2 mask, and a job trait) and 0 or 4% haste since the introduction of abyssea. (depending on if you used the lvl 50 nin ring) Which is a lot, but not as much as people seem to think.

[Karbuncle]

Durpity

Agreed!

Also, Looking at the "new posts section", Does anyone but me feel like we've run off the Reps? I miss them.

[thefinalrune]

As a THF and a RNG, I can relate wholeheartedly. Between the high costs, the high synth requirements and the limited crafter base ammo has become ridiculous to obtain for any viable price. I really don't like having to spend 100k cruor on items to NPC just to afford a single stack of quivers of ammo. A single stack that I may in all likely-hood burn through before I earn that 100k cruor back.

Does anyone but me feel like we've run off the Reps? I miss them.

I imagine SE vastly under estimated the number and volume of responses and threads that would be made. The JP board is even worse, they have threads with thousands of replies sometimes. I honestly don't envy the job of the reps that have to read all the posts we make.