How Treasure Hunter works - SE clarification request

[thefinalrune]

I remember shortly after that update there were claims on AH.com as high as TH12, but no one ever said anything about going further.

[Raksha]

So my question is, which is it? Was the given answer mistranslated or are we experiencing a bug?

False dichotomy. Maybe it used to work that way and they changed it recently.

[Vold]

False dichotomy. Maybe it used to work that way and they changed it recently.

You're nit picking on my wording, and I'm trying to make it as short and sweet and to the point as possible.

Perhaps Treasure Hunter effect in general remains, but any proc effectiveness is erased upon death by design?

I bring this up because I am asking if it was just plain changed up recently with the addition of procs.

In case I need to be more clear:

So I've been searching these forums only to be surprised that no one has managed to bring this up yet. So here goes:

When more than one member has Treasure Hunter, the player with the strongest version will have theirs take effect for the party. The effect comes into play as soon as the Thief generates enmity from the target enemy. Even if the Thief dies, the effect remains.

This is a known SE response from several years ago in regards to how the job ability Treasure Hunter works. The problem with it is players have been reporting their Treasure Hunter being reset upon death ever since the last update came around that gave us Treasure Hunter III and Treasure Hunter effectiveness procs. A Thief procs to whatever number they do. They then die. They heal up. They then re engage the monster only to find out their TH effectiveness starts over from scratch. So my question is, which is it? Was the given answer mistranslated and TH does not remain? Are we experiencing a bug? Were things changed to 'TH does not remain' recently, since that Q&A answer? Are things working as intended and players are misjudging what they are seeing? For curious minds, if this is in fact a bug, is it a bug in the sense that it's supposed to remain active and isn't, or is the data we're getting in the log bugged and behind the scenes it's working as intended, as in it does remain active after a Thief dies? Just curious whether or not I need to take special care in not eating dirt until such a bug is fixed!

I thank you in advance for any response.

[Kuishen]

Would like to know if tping in your TH gear increases the chance of getting a TH proc. As terrified as I am of the answer being yes, it would be nice for some confirmation.

[Arcon]

It definitely stays on after death. I'm a sacrificial THF myself and find myself eating dust constantly. Since I only have TH gear on at start, and occasionally get a proc, I have TH6 or TH7 on. I immediately equip TH3 gear (= no TH gear) and then sometimes die. I also immediately get up (powered by Apocalypse) and keep doing my meele/SA/TA thing, and I've never seen TH reset, in fact, I remember several times where I managed to increase it further.

The x-times roll for THx theory is most certainly wrong, and could be disproved by some very simple and short tests. Get TH6 on and kill some things with low drop rate for certain items. This is equivalent to saying you get the same results from fighting a mob x times. Imagine TH6 on Fafnir, it would be like fighting him 6 times and merge the loot pools. It even sounds very unlikely, just consider TH6 for the moment and what it does. 6-times reroll would turn 5% drop rate into 25% drop rate, 10% drop rate into 50% drop rate, 20% drop rate into 75% drop rate. So 1 in 20 drops would turn into 1 in 4 drops, 1 in 10 to 1 in 2, 1 in 5 to 3 in 4. Not to mention higher TH tiers, TH10 would turn a very rare 10% drop into an extremely common 66% drop (1 in 10 to 2 in 3). This could be tested very easily, if someone who actually believes this wants to try it. I'm pretty sure it's wrong so I'm not gonna bother personally.

As to where it caps.. a friend of mine managed to get TH11 on Bukhis, I'm not quite sure if he had TH6 yet back then. I'll have to go through the logs. Also, how is (Base + Gear) x2 calculated? Based on current gear? Then I believe we'll see an increase in THFs fulltiming TH. And that could be disproved easily, in fact, I have. I triggered TH7 lots of times without any TH gear (TH3 base) so that's not it. The gear you had on at start? If that's it, it would be hard to prove, but if it's not it, should be easy to disprove. Have someone engage with TH3 and keep meleeing, hope to get TH7. It should definitely be possible, I've seen TH6 proc lots on NMs I didn't care about the drops on, so had only TH3 equipped. I'm not sure if I saw TH7, but if it's possible it shouldn't be hard to reach.

[Runespider]

Keep in mind here the message upgrading is no guarantee, they are seperate entities. The message could say th 100 and you could still have none, it's still possible TH is lost when the thief dies even if the message remains.

I noticed a reduction when I die on thief from what I normally get too but given randomness Square throws into everything it's hard to be sure.

[Darka]

About the going idle thing, I was soloing Minax Bugard on THF and it did that kill move (name escapes me), it even regenned a few ticks before I re-engaged, when I did my first TH proc was 9 (I got 8 before I died). I suspect the effect only wears off after idle and complete regen.

[Alukat]

well it could probably be this way:
u get one roll and th effects the range of numbers for an item
example mob is davoi wasp:

beehive chip 0-200, 400-600
honey 275-425, 500-600
insect wing 550-650
giant stinger 600-750

now lets say that u have th4
this might turn it to:
beehive chip 0-250,400-650
honey 275-475,500-650
insect wing 550-700
giant stinger 600-750

the numbers aren't true for sure. but this could be a way it does work.
it allows no drop to multiple drops.

anyone else experienced that if u proc th7 at begin of the fight and remove 1 th equipment piece that 7 will proc again?

[Arcon]

About the going idle thing, I was soloing Minax Bugard on THF and it did that kill move (name escapes me), it even regenned a few ticks before I re-engaged, when I did my first TH proc was 9 (I got 8 before I died). I suspect the effect only wears off after idle and complete regen.

I have experienced different behaviour on several accounts. From my experience, as soon as the mob deaggros, all effects on it are gone, including weakness staggers and Treasure Hunter.

Keep in mind here the message upgrading is no guarantee, they are seperate entities. The message could say th 100 and you could still have none, it's still possible TH is lost when the thief dies even if the message remains.

Have any proof for that? I find it very hard to believe. Especially after they confirmed that TH will stay on the mob.

anyone else experienced that if u proc th7 at begin of the fight and remove 1 th equipment piece that 7 will proc again?

Not me, it always upgraded to 8.

[Alhanelem]

well it could probably be this way:
u get one roll and th effects the range of numbers for an item
example mob is davoi wasp:

beehive chip 0-200, 400-600
honey 275-425, 500-600
insect wing 550-650
giant stinger 600-750

now lets say that u have th4
this might turn it to:
beehive chip 0-250,400-650
honey 275-475,500-650
insect wing 550-700
giant stinger 600-750

the numbers aren't true for sure. but this could be a way it does work.
it allows no drop to multiple drops.

anyone else experienced that if u proc th7 at begin of the fight and remove 1 th equipment piece that 7 will proc again?

This thread isn't about the method by which TH affects drop rates, which is something we can only speculate on and as long as treasure hunter helps you find treasure in some way, the end result of the behind the scenes calculation is the same. What this thread is really about is whether or not the effect given by TH remains when the THF is KO'd or if the base effect remains but not the boosted effect, or what have you.

That said, I find it extremely doubtful that the game uses internal /random commands to decide if you get drops or not. It's far more likely to be percent based, rather than the same 0-999 random scale we use for lots.