Concerns about SCH.

[Hiroshiko]

I know cure VI needs changing to allow cure V to go to RDM and SCH ( PLD is a job main with cures it should get cure V too if you ask me)

that is why they need to change the enm on cure V and just give a cure enm trait to whm ( that works outside of caps)

I think someone suggested it earlier here or in another thread... SE could remove Cure V special enmity properties, and then give WHM a lv50 job trait that reduces cure enmity, so that the new Cure V generates roughly the same enmity as the old one. Or maybe a little more, but the rest of cures generate less since they're affected by it, or whatever. This would solve the enmity issues.

As for potency issues, rework Cure formulas so that MND and SPECIALLY healing skill are determinant in the spell potency: There you go, RDM and SCH has Cure V, but generates more enmity and can't heal as much (while still being clearly superior to Cure IV).

I really like the bolded parts. I saw that mentioned before as well but I must have overlooked it at the time. However, that would make WHM distinct from the other mages and wouldn't necessarily be anything WHM didn't had before (especially since a lot of the newer gear lacks -emn where we once had Blessed). Plus, it will effectively allow PLD to have a use for Cure V as an enmity tool as well (though I still don't see them using it as much since Cure V would probably burn their MP pool in a few casts.)

And yes, Healing Magic Skill makes me rage and a fix to the formula would definitely be appreciated. When I first saw the Orison Bliaud's augments, I /facepalmed seeing the Healing Magic Skill because it seems like the design team doesn't realize how insignificant it is in the formula compared to MND. The Refresh +2 and "Solaceskin" cap break was its saving grace. However, WHM naturally has higher skill and an adjustment to the formula would benefit all the mages equally.

(And yes I know this isn't the WHM forum... I have SCH too.) *disclaimer*

[Rambus]

I understand and I understand the need for that balance, that was always to my replay to people. I would say give cure V to those jobs then they where like zomg that will brake whm. Then I will say not if you cahnge how cure V works and give an EMN cure trait for whm that works outsite caps.

If you seen it before was prob me saying it. ( say it a lot talking in different job threads too)

WHM are on cure VI already.

The only thing that makes cure V overpowered is the static Enmity that cure V has. SE can drop that, and then give WHM some trait of cure enmity down that works outside caps. Make cure VI a better cure / mp ratio, then you are fine letting PLD, RDM and SCH having cure V. you cannot have jobs on /WHM and at 99 /RDM that has the same cure power as jobs that has cures as a main. It is not a progression for having the same level cure of natural cure jobs (PLD, RDM,SCH) and having anything sub it. Not giving PLD, RDM, SCH cure V just shows SE wasn’t fully ready to past this game past 75. I still think this game is not meant to past 75 and they are trying to force it that way.

I do think RDM can use raise II, SCH can use raise III and WHM use raise IV by 99, you need progression in all areas. I do not know about PLD and raise II though, they originally never had a raise.

forgot about restating the mp/heal ratio on cure VI but ya -.-

changes can be made to allow rdm pld and sch to get cure V

[Hiroshiko]

I agree and I think it was you that I remember reading the -enmity trait from. I've been hopping a lot between this thread and another suggestion thread in the Scholar forum, as well as a few in the White Mage forum. A lot of the ideas run together after awhile. Anyways, you make a very good point though. It would be ridiculous for anything sub /WHM or /RDM at 99 to have the same tier Cure as RDM, SCH, and PLD. The suggestions to alter Healing Magic Skill's impact on the Cure formula as well as the -enmity trait for WHM (and remove of Cure Vs static enmity) would be great steps toward preserving WHMs top-tier healing status, while still allowing SCH and RDM to keep up on healing duties and PLD to utilize it as well.

[Meowryu]

Summary (TL: DR): SCH and RDM need something to improve their healing capabilities. However, handing Cure V without some check and balances would bring us back to the days where there was only one tier of separation between WHMs and the other mages. Cure VI isn’t as powerful as it appears due to its inefficiency and being unnecessary out of Abyssea.

I don't think Cure V would break SCH/RDM as jobs and make WHM an unnecessary job in parties/events again. WHM has a few things neither of these jobs would bring to the table.

Afflatus Solace: Free stoneskin (up to 300hp) a cure is BOSS.

Divine Caress: Removing a status effect and giving an 80% resistance to it for 1 min, oh and DCaress has a 1 min recast.

Divine Benison: 50% fastcast for status removal spells; you've never na'd someone as fast as this . (-Enmity as well).

Auspice: +10 (+20 with AF3+2) Subtle blow is amazing for lowmanning NMs, allowing a member to remove SB gear for other gear and remain at SB cap.

Esuna: AoE na' spell. Nothing super amazing, but a utility spell none the less.

Baramnesra: With no Na spell for amesia, stacking barfira + this allows for 1/2, 1/4, 1/8th resists on amnesia. Utility spell.

Shell/Pro-ra V: Merited versions are better than their single target brothers (although only by a small margin)

Barspell Merits: +10 MDB on barspells

AF3+2: Pants: Free MP when you drop a bomb cure; which WHM is great at. Cure V/VIing for a huge amount of hp, getting some mp (50~80) back, and a 300 hp stoneskin on a target seems alright.

AF3+2 Set Bonus: Chance a barspell will 100% resist a matching element is great, doesn't always proc do to the low % chance (5-10%~?) but saves you mp from having to heal after an -aga etc.



Each job can bring a different suite of benefits to a group and I don't believe giving SCH or RDM Cure V would be unbalanced to the point where WHM would become an unnecessary job; on the contrary I believe it would still be the best healer in game.

[Sonshou]

Would it be easier for SE to create a new cure spell that is equavlent to cure5 without the enmity reduction? instead of doing all those enmity adjustment for jobs or traits?

Allow both WHM RDM PLD and SCH to access that spell. It is fair for WHM to access to 2 cure5 equvalent spells since they are the healer.

[Pofo]

Would it be easier for SE to create a new cure spell that is equavlent to cure5 without the enmity reduction? instead of doing all those enmity adjustment for jobs or traits?

Allow both WHM RDM PLD and SCH to access that spell. It is fair for WHM to access to 2 cure5 equvalent spells since they are the healer.

Actually, it would be a lot easier to just give SCH and RDM Cure V. People who claim it would out shine WHMs are idiots who A. Don't know anything about the job and don't have it leveled, or B. Terrible WHMs who don't understand the extra benefits WHM has over any other healing job. The type "B" people typically see the only spells WHMs use as Cure, Protect, and Shell.

However, I don't think PLD should get access to Cure V, that might be a little broken, esp. with things like Ochain at your disposal. Overall I'd rather give PLD more enmity tools then a new tier of cure (that comes with native - enmity), since they can't even meet their jobs functions in abyssea right now.

[Pebe]

idk pofo, without adjustments, sch with cure V outside of abyssea will be pretty beastly due to reasons previously stated. I still am in favor of the enmity fixes suggested before. Otherwise, it'll basically end of being cureskin + whm af3+2 pants efficieny + weakened light arts (less stratedgems, etc) vs. penury/rapture, convert, sublimation. I'm probably missing something but that is the jist of it off the top of my head. Oh btw:

LOWER SCH'S LEVEL OF STONA ; ;! I want stona when i sub sch on rdm SE, make it happen.

[Meowryu]

idk pofo, without adjustments, sch with cure V outside of abyssea will be pretty beastly due to reasons previously stated. I still am in favor of the enmity fixes suggested before. Otherwise, it'll basically end of being cureskin + whm af3+2 pants efficieny + weakened light arts (less stratedgems, etc) vs. penury/rapture, convert, sublimation. I'm probably missing something but that is the jist of it off the top of my head. Oh btw:

LOWER SCH'S LEVEL OF STONA ; ;! I want stona when i sub sch on rdm SE, make it happen.

You're right; having Cure V negates everything else a WHM brings to the table.

You must fall into category B?..

[Siiri]

You're right; having Cure V negates everything else a WHM brings to the table.

You must fall into category B?..

It doesn't negate everything, but outside of abyssea scholar will once again have a significant advantage over whm with mp regeneration. Scholar has super charged sublimation at 90 compared to a sub job level sublimation, along with convert. White mage was a second choice healer in many events at 75, pre abyssea due to the perception that they would run out of mp. The main reason they would be taken would be for oh crap Cure 5s, but events like limbus, nyzul, assaults, merit parties, dyna, red mages and scholars were preferred due to mp reasons. My einherjar group even tried to have red mage main healers but we had to switch to white mages due to our poor red mages. For white mages who lived through being second choice, being told they couldn't heal missions ( I remember RED MAGE ONLY for airship) giving up Cure V exclusivity is a bit worrisome. I think most remembering the 75 events do see that as a concern, to some degree.

[Pebe]

You're right; having Cure V negates everything else a WHM brings to the table.

You must fall into category B?..

Its not that it negates everything whm brings to the table....
If you give away whm's greatest healing tool in this game, that keeps it above the other healers, to the most mp efficient mage in the game (sch), obviousely there will be some issues. Whm is the main healer of this game, hands down. Encroaching on this status without blances would be plain stupid. If my sch had cure V, I would use it alot over my whm now just for the efficiency, except for during certain fights (mostely where those lovely lovely barspells play a nice role).

Lets assume both whm and sch subbed rdm for access to convert, I personally sub sch on whm but this way comparison is easier.

Whm uniqueness: Why sch encroaches:
Auspice
Powerful barspells
Regen IV Boosted Regen III
Esuna AoE na spells
Raise III Raise II (difference irrelevant in this day and age)
Shellra V (merited) Shell V
Protectra V Protect V
Boost spells Stormsurge
Teleports
Sacrifice
Solace Cureskin(400 hp?) Rapture(+60%)/Stoneskinga?
Divine Seal Rapture x2 \o/
af3+2 pants Penury/Sublimation/Light Arts innate bonuses
Cure casting time merits Alacrity/Light Arts innate bonuses
Higher cure potency Rapture(+60%)/Aurastorm(+15% with twilight cape)
Devotion This is uncomparable (was thinking adloquim but meh), devotion is sexy!
Cure VI Inneficient and Rapture + Cure V will probably do more than this

So as shown, there is not much that whm gets, if sch got cure V without adjustments, that would put it over sch in terms of healing that would put whm far over sch.