Concerns about SCH.

[Jomen]

@Fetus,

Yeah, I lvled SCH to 75 as my second job. I'm not gonna waste 2 strategms and merits to lower enmity on a spell. That's the dumbest thing I think you can do with your hard earned exp and in a healing or nuking position, wasting strategms on enmity is ridiculous.

The spell I pointed out with the enmity staying constant would work like this. You cast it, and for that amount of time there would be no enmity influx at all. Let me break it down for you, since you just seem like a fanboy fetus and not good at thinking outside of the box. If I use Animus augeo or minuo at this current time, I've still seen Ukkon wars go berserk and get all the hate anyway. So instead, this spell would make it so no enmity could change, so that the 90 pld doing 30 damage a hit or whatever the hell is tanking, will keep hate after the war goes berserk and does a 5k ukkon. Get it?

Second, I got confused a little you're right. I do 3.7k on average in abyssea with a tier 5. Still doesn't change the fact that blms are pushing 7.5k when they're ridiculously built. I don't really need to prove to you if SCH is one of my mains since I've only ever got compliments on my server for my skill and am always getting recruited for lowman stuff.

As for the subbing rdm. I don't want to all the time? Perhaps I'd like to have access to the curaga spells from whm, or the warp from blm just because? Nah, I think I'll /rdm all the time because they get refresh...yeah...that sounds right.... My argument was it should be native so we get more options than sub rdm. I didn't ask for refresh or haste or phalanx, just the low lvl enfeebles so I don't have to always be /rdm. Although fast cast is nice.

Do you play SCH, fetus? Cuz last I saw I didn't say we are slow or anything like that? I was going with the fact that we don't have the ability to speed through nukes anymore. We used to be the fastest spellcaster with alacrity and now we're not. I'm not asking for super speed, just something to get us standing toe to toe. Also, I wasn't asking for Eubillence. I was saying it would be nice to expend to charges to double it even more. Eubillence is 50%....

Also, who are you? You act like you got beef with me or something. Not like I care, cuz now that you've called me out on my skill on sch, we got beef brah.

Edit: I was just saying some thoughts that came into my mind anyways. Some were good, some were not. I didn't spend all morning thinking up stuff I can beg for haha. Just a quick write before I went back to rl.

[Hiroshiko]

I read though your post and i saw RDM > whm in Nyzul Isle. I was so annoyed with RDMs in Nyzul Isle due to lacking HPS I started to refuse to go to it without a WHM. I went to WHM to nyzul isle if i had too and my SCH would never touch the event since it was supar like RDM is for curing and nuking wasn't needed.

I do agree cure VI needs rebalancing with RDM,PLD, SCH getting cure V. you also have to consider this. Jobs as a curing main should not have the same max cure as /whm or /rdm at 99. YOU HAVE to give them those cures otherwise your suck on 75 mindset. The other Solution is make healing skill mean something to able to pop out 600 ish cure IVs as base with healing skill we have at 90.

I will agree in getting a form of Elemental celerity. it could be less potent then the BLM's though, plus it would fair better on SCH vs RDM. We are suppose to nuke better then RDM and they get nuke spells that we need Addendum: Black.


Siiri this is the first time I agree with you on something. yes I agree that MAB to dark arts is a bit much. I am happy with our damage, but like others said in other threads (guess I am loosing track with these threads) we need more uniqueness. fusion spells for level 3 scs and so on would be nice.

I mentioned Nyzul because on the Ragnarok sever many people wouldn't go without a RDM most of the time. WHMs were still useful and sought after, but some groups were more comfortable with just a RDM than with just a WHM. However, that was on a case by case basis.

Anyways, I agree with you about the Cure issue. Something needs to be done, but what exactly must be considered for current and future balance. It would be ridiculous for anything /WHM or /RDM to be able to access an almost equally potent Cure IV as RDM, SCH, and even PLD before gear. I entirely agree with you that Healing Magic Skill needs to have a stronger impact on Cure potency. That alone would make Cures more balanced across the mage jobs since WHM has the highest natural skill. I think I mentioned the same idea somewhere (could have been WHM forums), but currently Healing Magic is not as significant as MND after the soft cap is reached. However, they would have to make skill ups a bit easier (I've noticed some increase since the last update, but the frequency could still be better.)

Adjusting the Cure formula seems like the a decent way to boost Cures across all jobs without stepping on another job's toes. Overall though, SCH just needs something entirely unique that warrants utilizing them.

[Celedh]

I didn't read everything out of this thread, but here's my two cents on certain points :

The SCH was made to be an in-between, like a Red Mage with less melee and more magic, played differently with the usage of Arts and Stratagems. In that aspect, Scholar is very well made.

But it will and should always be outclassed by pure roles in the respective aspects : it can do everything, but not as good. It can cure, not as a good as a White Mage. It can nuke, not as good as a BLM.

As a Light Art base, their main strenght is Enhancing, with AOE-able spells like Stoneskin, Blink, Protect and Shell, and some of those on different parties, making them helpful to support a party outside of his own. Sadly the biggest shortcomming in that aspect is almost constant need the support job, as their own spellbook is rather limited (it was very helpful to give them Stoneskin/Blink natively though). But the better enhancing spells are still limited to subjob (Phalanx, spikes, enspells among others).

Also, I don't think the biggest issue is that they don't have Cure V per say. I think what tips the balance is that EVERY JOB can get Cure IV simply by using WHM subjob at level 90 (I think Cure 4 was level 41 on WHM ?). For a job supposedly being 'second best' at everything, it ends up being equal to RDM and SMN/WHM, minus Light Arts bonuses. Considering that Dark Arts/Addendum gives them access to the strongest BLM spells, why not give them access to at least Cure V on Light Arts/Addendum ? I think it would make sense in that aspect. Level 60+ on Addendum wouldn't give it access to support jobs at least.

[hideka]

@Fetus,

Yeah, I lvled SCH to 75 as my second job. I'm not gonna waste 2 strategms and merits to lower enmity on a spell. That's the dumbest thing I think you can do with your hard earned exp and in a healing or nuking position, wasting strategms on enmity is ridiculous.

i litterally fell out of my chair laughing when i read the above bold statment. EXP is not hard. you can have all jobs 90 and fully merited in under 2 months of work.

[Kasandaro]

That said, we need a bump in magic. They need to adjust the grimoires to push us to an A now instead of B+. It can even be A- but that would at least get us closer to being at the lvl of healing, nuking, or enfeebling that the big three are at.

Skill, especially in Abyssea, but outside as well, with as much accuracy and potency gear is available? Has a very negligible effect. Especially on curing magic, where SCH is arguably most deficient.

-Cure potency under White arts: +2% every 10 lvls.

So at lvl 90 we'd be at 18% cure potency ... No, this is not overpowered. WHMs can hit 50%+ cure potency ... I feel like this would not get us to their lvls but very close to being able to nip at their heels and make them feel pressure.

(non-Light Arts stuff trimmed for space)

wut

You are aware:
a) Cure potency caps at 50% (though, as noone has the job trait, no idea if it would have two separate caps);
b) WHM gets no native Cure Potency;
c) Discounting atma, WHM takes eight pieces (Surya's +2 22%, Orison Cap +2 10%, Serpentes x2 5% Roundel 5%, O Cape 3%, O Earring2 %, Fylgja +1 3%) to hit potency cap, assuming the body and legs are kept clear for Orison curehacks.

18% from your trait - assuming the 50% is a total cap - means that SCH could cap in (Surya's +2 22%, Roundel 5%, Tatsumaki 5%) three pieces (four if you replace Roundel with Serpentes).

How is that not overpowered?

[Fetus]

Yeah, I lvled SCH to 75 as my second job. I'm not gonna waste 2 strategms and merits to lower enmity on a spell. That's the dumbest thing I think you can do with your hard earned exp and in a healing or nuking position, wasting strategms on enmity is ridiculous.

If you don't like it, then don't use it. They're not going to add a stratagem that does the same thing as another stratagem just because nobody likes the idea of using two charges instead of one. If you're suggesting that they reconfigure the way it works (costing one charge instead of two), then I'm all for it.

The spell I pointed out with the enmity staying constant would work like this. You cast it, and for that amount of time there would be no enmity influx at all. Let me break it down for you, since you just seem like a fanboy fetus and not good at thinking outside of the box. If I use Animus augeo or minuo at this current time, I've still seen Ukkon wars go berserk and get all the hate anyway. So instead, this spell would make it so no enmity could change, so that the 90 pld doing 30 damage a hit or whatever the hell is tanking, will keep hate after the war goes berserk and does a 5k ukkon. Get it?

Your 'tude sucks. I never called you a fanboy nor did I "call you out" on your playing skill as SCH. Feel free to quote me on anything I said. However, thanks for providing an example. It seems useful enough to warrant real consideration.

Second, I got confused a little you're right. I do 3.7k on average in abyssea with a tier 5. Still doesn't change the fact that blms are pushing 7.5k when they're ridiculously built. I don't really need to prove to you if SCH is one of my mains since I've only ever got compliments on my server for my skill and am always getting recruited for lowman stuff.

Again, just because I said 2.5K is weaksauce doesn't mean I'm insulting you. If you took it as an insult, sorry, but don't be so defensive.

As for the subbing rdm. I don't want to all the time? Perhaps I'd like to have access to the curaga spells from whm, or the warp from blm just because? Nah, I think I'll /rdm all the time because they get refresh...yeah...that sounds right.... My argument was it should be native so we get more options than sub rdm. I didn't ask for refresh or haste or phalanx, just the low lvl enfeebles so I don't have to always be /rdm. Although fast cast is nice.

Why would you sub anything other than /RDM, honestly? There's nothing you can do with Curaga that you can't do with Accesssion+Cure. You want Warp? Uh, Warp Cudgels are cheap and Scrolls of Instant Warp are 10CP. And yes, of course, every SCH subs /RDM for Refresh. Obviously. In terms of Job Traits/Abilities, Fast Cast, Magic Attack Bonus, Magic Defense Bonus and Convert are pretty much everything you could want in addition to what you already have for SCH. Being able to use Curaga or Warp don't even hold a candle to this. It's so convenient that it makes debate about ones' choice of support job pointless.

I was going with the fact that we don't have the ability to speed through nukes anymore.

You keep saying this and you're still wrong. Alacrity and Celerity exist. If Fast Cast+Alacrity/Celerity isn't cutting it for you, then I don't know what to say. If you want to nuke as fast as a BLM or RDM, then play BLM or RDM.

We used to be the fastest spellcaster with alacrity and now we're not. I'm not asking for super speed, just something to get us standing toe to toe.

Things change. PLD used to be useful. All of the jobs have aspects that they excel at and aspects that they fall short in (compared to other jobs). People keep asking for sooper dooper speed and it gets annoying. Try to come up with something novel for SCH instead of just picking more parts from WHM and BLM that you want and trying to assimilate them into SCH.

Also, I wasn't asking for Eubillence. I was saying it would be nice to expend to charges to double it even more. Eubillence is 50%....

It's not necessary. SCH can breach +68% damage per nuke pre-Elemental Affinity, Magic Attack Bonus, INT formulas or anything else you can think of. Ebullience is +20%, by the way. Savant's Bonnet +1 increases it to +25%. Savant's Bonnet +2 increases it to +30%.

Also, who are you? You act like you got beef with me or something. Not like I care, cuz now that you've called me out on my skill on sch, we got beef brah.

Edit: I was just saying some thoughts that came into my mind anyways. Some were good, some were not. I didn't spend all morning thinking up stuff I can beg for haha. Just a quick write before I went back to rl.

I could ask you the same question. I don't know you nor care about your "skill" with SCH, brah. You said it yourself that you were just "saying some thoughts that came into my mind". And I agree with you: Some were good, some were not. Just because I read your post and told you what I thought about it doesn't mean anything. It's a forum. Get over it.

[Jomen]

Yeah, I took it incorrectly Fetus. I apologize and your points were valid as well. I do play black mage so I don't mind switching over for that but I see no reason to restrict SCH to subbing RDM. Yes, I see the benefits from fast cast and refresh, but I use sublimation over refresh, gain haste from subbing WHM and other benefits. The main reason people sub RDM is for fastcast, refresh and phalanx as well as the basic enfeebles. Just trying to get to the point of where we have more subjob options to play with. Also, yes I can easily accession + cure. But there is a limit. I fought the cactuar nm in A.alteppa and ran out of strategms during the needle span so had to rely on the curaga series in between recharges. But yes, I sub rdm most of the time anyway, simply for enfeebling purposes as well as phalanx. Sorry for the hate, I get that it wasn't an insult but the wording of your original post sounded very stand-offish. And you're right about ebullience, I was thinking it was the same % as rapture so I was wrong about that.

Hideka, As for the exp gain, yeah it is ridiculously easy. But I had my sch fully merited before abyssea existed so for back then it was a lot. That exp in particular took me a long time, today I can easily do it. I laughed when I read your comment cuz I realized I had forgotten abyssea exists for a few seconds. I kind of miss the old 75 cap.

Kasandro, the reason I would like to see skill augmented is not so much for curing. I never really cared for healing myself since the skill related doesn't affect it much anyway. However, when it comes to nuking, enfeebling, etc, it causes us to sacrifice equipment slots to fill in with macc and other gear. On my blm, I have no ele skill up or macc gear and I nuke like a hoss in and out of aby. On sch, I have two pieces of macc gear and one with ele skill on it and still sometimes get weird resists. What that comes down to is skill. The higher we can get the skill cap, the easier to get past the accuracy threshold. I do have both ele and enfeebling magic merited though so it's not too much of a worry. Also, I have the body +2 so I can get rid of those macc pieces when I get back but this was just a thought of resistance mostly. As for the cure cap, no I had no clue that there was one haha. I did some math too and came out to +58% cure potency on whm. So I guess if it caps at 50 then it's useless to have some of those pieces. Again, I'm not a healer but some schs out there are hardcore about healing so they really want to be on par. But yes, that would be overpowered. So I'll retract the idea of the grimoire bonus.

[Fetus]

@Jomen - I was being sarcastic about subbing /RDM for Refresh. Don't forget that at 99, SCH will get Haste from /RDM unless we get it naturally by then, anyway.

[Delvish]

I do agree with Jomen on one point. I would really really want to at least have the capacity to feasibly sub something other than RDM because it is so standard. I'm working on my club and staff skill currently (with that sexy D skill), so I can help with the !! procs that require those subs. Currently I just run in at the start of fights after a good 3ish min. Adloquium'ed Omniscience to get the weakness. It helps, but I'd like to do more and be more wanted.

[Miera]

I agree, I think Healing Magic needs some working on. It does diddly and Cure Potency and MND > Healing Magic Skill. I think they should make Healing Magic skill actually mean something, maybe that way it can set some sort of balance since WHM have higher Healing Magic than SCH and RDM.

Also, the lack of Cure Potency Items is killing me. I'm still working on Magian staff but I fear it still wouldn't be enough.