Concerns about SCH.

[Merton9999]

The only reason we are pulling hate is because we do still use Cure IV. A WHM should never wait for a DD to take enough damage to use just V and VI.

Yeah, um, I'm confused by this, but I don't know why because I see the misconception all the time. First, I play WHM a lot more than SCH these days. Mostly because my LS whines like hell if I come SCH instead, and second, because I hate not having Cure V to main heal. So you can guess how I feel about SC getting a Cure V equivalent.

Anyway, Sotek is not off on the never pulling hate statement. I can't think of any time I have ever gotten hate on WHM on anything in Abyssea, unless I am being totally lazy on some crap NM and spamming after their hate reset move because who cares.

Why? I never use any other Cure spell other than Cure V and VI. What I'm confused about is this concept that you have to wait until the math works out to make Cure V cure its full amount, so you use Cure IV instead. This is a necessary requirement outside of Abyssea, where MP is an issue. Inside, the idea of losing out on Cure/MP ratio is meaningless. There is no need to wait until Cure V is numerically justifiable. You just use it anyway, regardless of what value you're comfortable letting the player's HP bar reach. Don't want to wait till they're low enough? Don't! But cast Cure V, not IV. Want to cure someone at 99%? Cast Cure V. It makes no difference if some of the potency is wasted because the MP cost doesn't matter and you gained less hate than you would have had you casted Cure IV. My guess is this is why you are pulling hate and tanking on WHM in Abyssea. That's craziness.

In fact, cast Cure V on your blink tank when their HP is near full to maintain their stoneskin. Oh, and macro in Orison body instead of Facio for that Cure V macro. I see people screaming all the time that Orison body is useless because there is no potency on it. It's because they're stuck in this pre-Abyssea concept that you can only use Cure V if it will cure near its full amount, which is ridiculous with infinite MP.

With that in mind, if we are staying in Abyssea, the "WHM doesn't get hate" thing is absolutely a defining trait. My guess is Tranquil Heart is going to be tested over the next few months to see if removing the enmity property on Cure V will work for RDM, PLD and SCH. They're not going to have to make Cure V use two formulas. They're going to change the spell to have normal hate progression and give WHM more tiers of Tranquil Heart so that WHM Cure V hate is unchanged, and SCH, RDM and PLD get more hate from it than WHM does. This is the exact solution posted by Sotek several pages back. Everyone wins with this. SCH and RDM can be adequate healers without getting so frustrated trying that they wish they came WHM (a problem for me every time) and WHM can stay special with its ability to remain effectively invisible.

Well, idk if PLD will win but w/e. Oh, and those of use who are hoping more for something that boosts SCH's unique abilities will probably look at the August update and say "finally" at Cure V instead of "yay" for something cool. Oh well, I'll be happy with December's coolness and go solo some light skillchains.

[Raksha]

They're going to change the spell to have normal hate progression and give WHM more tiers of Tranquil Heart so that WHM Cure V hate is unchanged, and SCH, RDM and PLD get more hate from it than WHM does.

Unless the highest tiers (the WHM-only ones) break the -50% enmity cap, SCH and RDM WON'T gain more hate from cure5 than WHM. All three jobs will be casting in -50% enmity gear/traits anyway.

The way it is now, WHM with -50% enmity will gain 200CE and 350VE from a cure5 (regardless of amount cured). If they change this to use the same cure enmity formula that cure4 uses, that same WHM will gain (assuming 1000 hp cured) ~323CE and ~1935 VE (we dont have good numbers for lvl90).

Any job which can cast cure5 ( or any cure for that matter) for 1000hp, while wearing -50% enmity, at lvl 90, will gain the same enmity as a WHM (under the tranquil heart model).

[Sotek]

Unless the highest tiers (the WHM-only ones) break the -50% enmity cap, SCH and RDM WON'T gain more hate from cure5 than WHM. All three jobs will be casting in -50% enmity gear/traits anyway.

The way it is now, WHM with -50% enmity will gain 200CE and 350VE from a cure5 (regardless of amount cured). If they change this to use the same cure enmity formula that cure4 uses, that same WHM will gain (assuming 1000 hp cured) ~323CE and ~1935 VE (we dont have good numbers for lvl90).

Any job which can cast cure5 ( or any cure for that matter) for 1000hp, while wearing -50% enmity, at lvl 90, will gain the same enmity as a WHM (under the tranquil heart model).

Do we actually know how Tranquil Heart works yet? I highly doubt it after Animus, but it could simply work as -Enmity for Cure spells that is calculated before regular -Enmity. So we'd have Tranquil Heart Enmity (tEnmity) and Regular Enmity (rEnmity), giving a formula like: "(Base Cure CE/VE * tEnmity) * rEnmity"

Savant's loafers +2 stick a *1.1 before MAB when calculating magic damage, so I don't think it would be impossible for SE to do such a thing (if I'm grossly misunderstanding actual game mechanics sorry, it's late). Regardless I don't think Tranquil Heart is the answer simply because SE gave it to SCH and RDM, too. We only get it nine levels later than WHM, so I highly doubt we're very far behind on tiers.

[Raksha]

Do we actually know how Tranquil Heart works yet? I highly doubt it after Animus, but it could simply work as -Enmity for Cure spells that is calculated before regular -Enmity. So we'd have Tranquil Heart Enmity (tEnmity) and Regular Enmity (rEnmity), giving a formula like: "(Base Cure CE/VE * tEnmity) * rEnmity"

Savant's loafers +2 stick a *1.1 before MAB when calculating magic damage, so I don't think it would be impossible for SE to do such a thing (if I'm grossly misunderstanding actual game mechanics sorry, it's late). Regardless I don't think Tranquil Heart is the answer simply because SE gave it to SCH and RDM, too. We only get it nine levels later than WHM, so I highly doubt we're very far behind on tiers.

If it's a seperate term then it would probably work well, depending on how much more of it WHM gets over RDM/SCH. I'm willing to bet, though, that it's just a straight -enmity to cure spells. Maybe i'll be pleasantly surprised.