Concerns about SCH.

[Sotek]

I'm talking about the light arts side of it. Which, from my understanding, people /WHM for.

Wrong.

I'm pretty sure SCH gets access to the same refresh gear WHM does, excluding Orison Bliuad +2. I don't know if SCH empyrean body has refresh. I know there's the WOTG earring, Wivre Hairpin is any job, pretty sure Stearc subligar was any job, Owleyes. Am I missing anything? Then if you're going to throw in Refresh II and ballads, same could be said of SCH. But in cases where there isn't refresh II or ballads, SCH has this refresh gear and a better sublimation.

In said cases, SCH would be main healer? Well let me drone on back to why WHM is better. SCH will pull hate. If you haven't got a BRD and RDM (though RDM is largely ignorable), chances our your DDs aren't going to be killing quite as fast as they should be and I can only have flash backs of the horrors of main healing tanks without March. SCH having to Cure bomb with a spell that generates more hate than Cure VI doesn't last as long as it needs to in such a situation, which is why you bring a WHM. Hell, even when SCH did outclass WHM and BLM, both were still common place, if not vital (I never remember not seeing both jobs in Alliances) and that was before SE decided every job but SCH should play a part in making stuff drop.

As far as Aminus Minuo, I'm sure you can find the right set of gear that has a good balance of cure potency, -enmity and MND. I know my friend had a good one. I'll have to ask her what it was. Or put one together myself. Aminus Minuo is 1 to 2 less slots taking -ENM in gear.

You've completely missed the point. WHM still generates vastly last enmity than SCH. SCH gaining more hate with Cure V doesn't change that (well actually it does, but it's a negative change on SCH, go figure). Animus Minuo doesn't do squat, both jobs can probably already cap out -enmity, it's a worthless spell.

Breaking Rapture in a good way. Like, making the recast 3 minutes, or something that is nearly on the verge of being unbalanced.

Wait, so not only do you want SCH to be able to cast the same level of Cure as any /WHM job, but you want to put the only thing that redeems SCH healing on a 3 minute timer? Get the fuck out of this thread. Now.

[Aaralyn]

Wrong.



In said cases, SCH would be main healer? Well let me drone on back to why WHM is better. SCH will pull hate. If you haven't got a BRD and RDM (though RDM is largely ignorable), chances our your DDs aren't going to be killing quite as fast as they should be and I can only have flash backs of the horrors of main healing tanks without March. SCH having to Cure bomb with a spell that generates more hate than Cure VI doesn't last as long as it needs to in such a situation, which is why you bring a WHM. Hell, even when SCH did outclass WHM and BLM, both were still common place, if not vital (I never remember not seeing both jobs in Alliances) and that was before SE decided every job but SCH should play a part in making stuff drop.



You've completely missed the point. WHM still generates vastly last enmity than SCH. SCH gaining more hate with Cure V doesn't change that (well actually it does, but it's a negative change on SCH, go figure). Animus Minuo doesn't do squat, both jobs can probably already cap out -enmity, it's a worthless spell.



Wait, so not only do you want SCH to be able to cast the same level of Cure as any /WHM job, but you want to put the only thing that redeems SCH healing on a 3 minute timer? Get the fuck out of this thread. Now.

Ok, 2 minute timer? Or would you rather it still use up a charge?

If they were to get a HOT spell, they wouldn't need to rely on Rapture half as much.

If they were to do these things, SCH wouldn't need cure V, could cast cure IV less, and still be wanted.

And good for the WHMs on your server? My LS kept telling me to main SCH if I wanted to continue main healing. Other WHM friends in different linkshells, even on different servers were getting the same treatment.

And I guess I need to go tell my SCH friends they're doing it wrong as /WHM for healing. Huh.

Again, giving SCH cure V and striping the fixed enmity on it isn't going to fix SCH at all. It will just make it more like WHM, and then you will really have something to complain about as far as pulling hate.

Edit: If all of this stuff SCH main has is so useless, and it's Cure V you're wanting, play WHM?

[Miera]

I don't know what it is about your Linkshell but I was told different, my friend.

I was asked, "Don't you have any other job that can be more useful?"

Yeah, You read that right, SCH and RDM wasn't useful enough for my Linkshell and it wasn't enough for shout groups because I would get "SCH No Thanks" Oh and guess what? my Linkshell is pressing me to Level WHM because "SCH Completely sucks at healing and can't proc anything"

And you want us to suck more so we get ignored more? Hell Even a PUP gets Cure V and VI Might as well change it to lolSCH

Why are you even here? All you are doing is bashing our job and wanting our job to get a Nerf, seriously.. Those are not even good suggestions and your haven't given a good reason why SCHs should not get Cure V and why should we waste getting better gear for -enmity gear? We still cure for crap, that wont do anything.

[Sotek]

If all of this stuff SCH main has is so useless, and it's Cure V you're wanting, play WHM?

I said all the stuff SCH has is useless? My only complaint in regards to that is Libra/Animus and you're damn well deluded if you think either make SCH worth crap. I actually like having to use Stratagems for spells and being able to switch between two rolls, I only bring up things like Stratagems wasting a couple seconds to use is because that is what balances the job out to some degree.
You must be seriously be lacking in the ability to read because I've said numerous times that SCH Cure V wouldn't be anything like WHM Cure V. I wont level WHM, why? Because I don't want to stand there casting "Cure V > Cure VI > Cure V > etc." for the rest of my days. SCH main healing is far more entertaining for me, I simply demand Cure V because relying on Quick-Magic to proc when the shit hits the fan is completely stupid.

Again, giving SCH cure V and striping the fixed enmity on it isn't going to fix SCH at all. It will just make it more like WHM, and then you will really have something to complain about as far as pulling hate.

I'm already complaining about hate. WHM gains zero enmity. BLM can wipe its clean. DDs can all tank. I guess SE sees it as ironic that the one job that's meant to control enmity (even though THF does a better job of it) is the only one left that still has any hate gaining issues. But that's a digression, the point is SCH with Cure V wouldn't be anything like WHM. We'd be spamming Cure IV with the occasional Cure V while having to watch our hate, where as WHM spams Cure V/VI with zero concerns.
As for fixing SCH, I really don't know what to say. You say SCH is broken, which means you admit it's not doing it's role properly. Then you go ahead and say Cure V would just make it more like WHM (which it really wouldn't)? You are aware that Light Arts it meant to make SCH act as a WHM, right? You're either a complete idiot or you've had a massive lapse in cognitive ability recently.

And I guess I need to go tell my SCH friends they're doing it wrong as /WHM for healing. Huh.

No. You're wrong for saying SCH subs WHM for Light Arts, it doesn't. WHM is an irrelevant subjob the moment Lv.99 comes about, right now it's a reasonable subjob for Haste, but thats about it. Though if your SCH friends (and really, go run that Rapture on a 3 minute cool down idea by them, or better yet send them here, they might actually know wtf they're talking about) are in a party with either a RDM or WHM, /WHM becomes completely redundant because they don't need to cast Haste.

Honestly, I really don't know what else I can say about Cure V. You just don't want SCH to have it, that much is clear. Any WHM with an ounce of understanding of their job would realize that giving Cure V away with proper hate gain doesn't threaten them in the slightest. WHM can spam Cure V/VI until the cows come home. SCH could get off maybe six Cure Vs off before drawing unwanted attention. It's damn near the epitome of balance. Every single person who's said no to SCH getting Cure V has been completely incapable of countering this argument and you seem to be no different, don't bother saying "Just give SCH a HOT spell". For one I hate the acronym and for another its not an argument against getting Cure V at all.

[Aaralyn]

You're the one who said that the -5 ENM was crap. You said Libra was useless. Phalanx has no point of being casted, nor does regain, according to what you said. The way you're wording things, Cure V is the only thing that is going to save SCH, and everything else about it except maybe Rapture, Penury, Accession and Celerity is useless (as far as Light Arts side goes). That's what I've gotten out of your complaining.

No, I don't want SCH to get Cure V, glad you picked up on that. It baffles me that one of the things you're complaining about (hate), you're also suggesting Cure V is different for SCH in that it doesn't have fixed enmity, from what I've understood. That isn't going to fix the hate problems you're complaining about.

Abyssea isn't the only event in the game. Outside abyssea, Cure V is rarely used, let alone Cure VI. Stop living in abyssea if you want to play SCH?

Miera, I was talking about at 75. Not now.

Bottom line, SE's current direction seems to be to make each job unique. Giving SCH cure V isn't going to make it unique. It's going to make it a WHM with a little more tools to play with, that WHM/SCH can basically already do, only with less charges. No matter what they do to change Cure V. What makes you think they can make it different for SCH? It has fixed enmity. If they got rid of that for SCH, no amount of Tranquil Heart they give WHM to make up for it would help, without being broken, cause it would likely affect WHM's other cures, as well. I'm pretty sure they can't make two different formula's for 1 spell. I have none that come to mind.

Calling me an idiot and implying I can't read is a bit silly. I'm sorry we disagree? Was just saying what would make me want to level SCH, to make it unique from WHM. Only reason I suggested you level WHM is because, as I said, you were complaining about most of the things SCH main has, and not complaining about stuff you get from using it as a support job.

That's all.

[Miera]

You're the one who said that the -5 ENM was crap. You said Libra was useless. Phalanx has no point of being casted, nor does regain....

Actually he said Phalanx was good but if you are main healing and having to run up to your party and applying it is a pain, mobs have AOE attacks that could potentially kill us.

No, I don't want SCH to get Cure V, glad you picked up on that. It baffles me that one of the things you're complaining about (hate), you're also suggesting Cure V is different for SCH in that it doesn't have fixed enmity, from what I've understood. That isn't going to fix the hate problems you're complaining about.

WHMs have higher MND, Healing magic and way more cure Potency Gear than SCHs they can still outcure a SCH even if we were allowed Cure V, so why are you whining? My Cure IV cures the same amount as a WHMs Cure III if that tells you anything and no, I don't have a cure staff, would that make much of a difference, nope.

Well you aren't being quite productive with Suggestions by the way and just because you don't want us to have Cure V doesn't mean we should suffer because of this.

Abyssea isn't the only event in the game. Outside abyssea, Cure V is rarely used, let alone Cure VI. Stop living in abyssea if you want to play SCH?

So now you are saying that we shouldn't come SCH in Abyssea what gives you the right to say that? I should be able to go, party and do endgame whenever the hell I want on SCH. Also Hello? Everyone lives in abyssea, you go find a group who isn't doing just that. I don't know when was the last time I have seen Nyzul Isle, Limbus and Sky shouts since Abyssea came out.

Miera, I was talking about at 75. Not now.

Well, That was then and this is now, the level cap is at 90, things have changed people are fighting harder mobs and Cure IV doesn't cut it, Cure V should have been a spell at level 76 for SCHs we got Protect and Shell V and they even threw us Stoneskin, Aquavail and Blink (We should have had those from the beginning)

Bottom line, SE's current direction seems to be to make each job unique. Giving SCH cure V isn't going to make it unique. It's going to make it a WHM with a little more tools to play with, that WHM/SCH can basically already do, only with less charges. No matter what they do to change Cure V. What makes you think they can make it different for SCH? It has fixed enmity. If they got rid of that for SCH, no amount of Tranquil Heart they give WHM to make up for it would help, without being broken, cause it would likely affect WHM's other cures, as well. I'm pretty sure they can't make two different formula's for 1 spell. I have none that come to mind.

You're wrong, what sets SCH apart from WHM isn't just higher tiers of Cures, You have Divine caress and Barspells and higher Regens that are way more potent and Protect and shell which is better than anyone's protect and shell defense, higher Mind, and healing magic, all sorts of Cure Potency gear Not to mention Afflatus Solace and Misery, come on, Cure V for SCH isn't that game breaking.

[Aaralyn]

People on my server have started doing plenty outside abyssea.

I've never seen a good SCH die while running it to cast Phalanxga. And I've never died running in to Esuna. Just saying.

Now it just seems like you're complaining just to complain. I'll leave you to it.

[Sotek]

You're the one who said that the -5 ENM was crap. You said Libra was useless. Phalanx has no point of being casted, nor does regain, according to what you said. The way you're wording things, Cure V is the only thing that is going to save SCH, and everything else about it except maybe Rapture, Penury, Accession and Celerity is useless (as far as Light Arts side goes). That's what I've gotten out of your complaining.

Going to have to quote me on saying Phalanx isn't worth casting, or Regain. In fact, quote me on saying Scholar is even broken and Cure V is the miracle cure. I'd rather you not put words in my mouth because you can't read.
As it is, I can main heal, but (and I'm not going to say this again) I want Cure V because relying on Quick-Magic when the shit hits the fan is asinine.

No, I don't want SCH to get Cure V, glad you picked up on that. It baffles me that one of the things you're complaining about (hate), you're also suggesting Cure V is different for SCH in that it doesn't have fixed enmity, from what I've understood. That isn't going to fix the hate problems you're complaining about.

I'm suggesting SCH get Cure V with proper hate. I wouldn't complain about that because *gasp* it's not a spell I'd want to spam, which is exactly why I don't level WHM. In fact the only aspect I complain about enmity is that SE doesn't know what they're doing with it and decided on a whim that SCH should control hate, followed by giving it absolute horseshit to do so with. Cure V has nothing to do about that, though. I'd actually quite like the irony of SCH being the only class left that has to worry about hate when it's meant to control it, but right now it's completely lacking the ability to control hate. Libra: "Oh I've got a lot of hate, I better stop main healing", brilliant. Animus: -5 Enmity, no significant change to gear, zero ability to actually control hate. Yes, I'll complain about that (and frequently have), it has nothing to do with Cure V being balanced to fit my needs, though.

Calling me an idiot and implying I can't read is a bit silly. I'm sorry we disagree? Was just saying what would make me want to level SCH, to make it unique from WHM. Only reason I suggested you level WHM is because, as I said, you were complaining about most of the things SCH main has, and not complaining about stuff you get from using it as a support job.

And this is why I say you can't read. I wasn't complaining, I was stating facts. I have to run up to people to use Stoneskinga (uses one Stratagem) and spam Rapture with Cure IV (another Stratagem) to do what WHM just does with one spell. This isn't complaining. It's a damn fact and if you can't see how vastly better that makes WHM (regardless of Cure V) then yes, you are an idiot. You've effectively been ignoring an argument for why WHM is better regardless, while trying to argue SCH would be better if given Cure V, it's no wonder I'm calling you an idiot.

Abyssea isn't the only event in the game. Outside abyssea, Cure V is rarely used, let alone Cure VI. Stop living in abyssea if you want to play SCH?

But Abyssea is an event in the game, quite a big one at that. Forgive me for wanting to bring a job I enjoy to what is currently the largest endgame event in the game.

[Aaralyn]

Now who's putting words in whose mouth? I never said SCH would be better than WHM. What I said is it would be too much like WHM, and people before didn't care that WHM still healed better than SCH, so if they did get Cure V, what would make this time different in their eyes? Not much has changed, except that our cureskin is now stronger than it was. Yes, our barspells have always been stronger. Yes, we don't have to use a stratagem for for DD's to have stoneskin on them. I'm well aware of all of this. But people aren't going to care.

Maybe what I suggested wont help it either. Maybe it is stupid. But if you can't think of ways that could make SCH better without bringing up Cure V, then it is going to be the exact same way it was before. I've already been told (jokingly sometimes) by some friends that if SCH gets Cure V, I may as well ditch WHM and level SCH. So yes, my concerns for SCH getting cure V do have reason.

[Sotek]

Jesus Christ, do we really have to go around in circles?

You're just ignoring the very first aspect of SCH Cure V that was ever brought up. WHM has Cure V with virtually no hate gain. SCH has Cure V with greater hate gain than Cure IV like it should have. People aren't going to use SCH over WHM when WHM is better, even if you somehow think they will, they're not going to use SCH when it's actually going to pull hate. That is the number one reason WHM is king, the fact that it's better in just about every other regard is just a further kick in the teeth of you're argument.

Giving SCH something different that effectively does the same thing still isn't an argument against SCH Cure V. It's an alternative and it's completely unneeded. Why the hell go through the bother of making a new spell when they can just slightly adjust a current one? It doesn't make SCH unique. SCH is already unique while having 90% of the same spells as WHM and BLM. Asking for a whole new spell to do the role of one that's already in the damn game for the sake of superficial uniqueness is just ridiculous.