Concerns about SCH.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

WHM will get Tranquil Heart V @ 90
SCH will get Tranquil heart II @?
Rdm will only get Tranquil heart I

RDM gets the trait before SCH, so there is no way they will get a lesser tier than SCH far more likely for it to be the other way around, I'm guessing:

WHM
Tier I - 21
Tier II - 41
Tier III - 61
Tier IV - 81
Tier V - Possibly 91

RDM
Tier I - 26
Tier II - 46
Tier III - 86?

SCH
Tier I - 30
Tier II - 60
Tier III - 90?

[Eldelphia]

The only thing they need to fix about SCH is the ability to proc something uniquely in Abyssea/Voidwatch and let us hit 96.

We may or may not get Cure V. I wouldn't be surprised if SE drop the fixed enm value for V and rely on tiesr of tranquil heart instead. Opening it up to RDM/SCH/PLD.

[Pebe]

Well we proced something yesterday in voidwatch with Enmity Douse, I'm betting 100k gil that Libra is a proc as well.

[Sotek]

Any idea what they changed to Perpetuance and Immanence? I'm guessing Immanence Skillchains can actually resist now...

[Concerned4FFxi]

Absolutely not, cure V for sch will kill whm. Sch already has better nuking ability than rdm and with the right gear can nuke on the same level as blm. The concept of cure V for sch is outrageous, sch gets the ability of rapture at 55, a rapture cure V with a magian cure staff pot 22%, ASA cure pants 5%, augur's gloves or serp set, acp cure head peice 3%, a cure earring 5%(forgot the name but it drops from wotg campaign bcnm i think) and a flygia cure torque almost caps cure. Hers what the ability rapture has to say in the wiki:
■Potency increase is 55% while wearing Savant's Bonnet +1, 60% while wearing Savant's Bonnet +2
just looking at that is outrageous to think that you can have tier 5 single nukes anf tier 5 cures.

Now, the second part i have a problem with is the tier 5 nukes for pup and sch, at what point is blm going to be given a decent lead in nuking, the blm af3+2 body has no int on it, please SE stop gimping my jobs and giving other jobs the same abilities. Why play whm or blm if a decently geared sch can do both without a subjob?

[Miera]

Do you seriously expect us to use rapture every time we use Cure IV? Seriously, do you even have a SCH? =\

[Sotek]

Absolutely not, cure V for sch will kill whm.

You're not allowed to say this without actually countering every point I've made every damn time someone else has said the same damn thing. Seriously, this is the last time I'm telling a WHM what makes their job good.

WHM isn't top because of Curing power, it's top because it doesn't pull hate. Ever. WHM has near-zero enmity gain thanks to SE lacking foresight. SCH with Cure V, which just about everybody here agrees should be given with normal hate gain, would be a joke. I can already manage with Cure IV assuming the fight doesn't go on too long (because of hate), if Cure V gave more hate than Cure IV it's nothing more than an emergency spell, which I want, because relying on Quick-Magic isn't very good. When SCH can cycle Cure V > Cure VI like a robot with zero repercussions come and complain. As it is I can spam Cure IV with quite serious repercussions, so I don't see how that can ever happen.

Now, the second part i have a problem with is the tier 5 nukes for pup and sch, at what point is blm going to be given a decent lead in nuking, the blm af3+2 body has no int on it, please SE stop gimping my jobs and giving other jobs the same abilities.

You're complaining about BLM AFv3? Really?

Do you know why SCH and PUP get the top tier nukes? Because not having them would make both next to worthless. SCH is meant to act as a nuker and one of the PUP frames sure as hell is meant to be too. RDM gets tier IV because it's a jack of all trades, master of none. BLM, PUP and SCH are all meant to be expert nukers, the only thing that sets BLM apart is that it specializes in nuking, that's why BLM gets AM/-aga/-jas, Elemental Seal, superior traits, superior base INT and superior gear.

Why play whm or blm if a decently geared sch can do both without a subjob?

Because you enjoy WHM or BLM? I don't know. Or maybe because you want to proc !!, which SCH is absolutely awful for.
But by all means, go a head and replace both BLM and WHM with a single SCH. We can't cast Thunder V and Cure IV simultaneously, you either have a BLM and a SCH acting as a WHM or a WHM and a SCH acting as a BLM. You'll never see a SCH be both the main healer and main source of magic damage. Come back when you understand the concept of hybridization.

[Aaralyn]

As I've said before, I do think SCH needs something. But I don't think that "something" is Cure V. Before the update, I didn't like SCH because I was tired of being told I should drop WHM for SCH. Now, SCH has tons of down falls, and I see no reason what-so-ever for anyone to level it, outside of Libra. I thought Libra was pretty cool.

The way I see SCH could be fixed, and make me actually want to level it, is, as some people have mentioned, a HOT spell greater than regen would be pretty cool. The second is, make Rapture a JA that doesn't rely on a charge, and make the recast be something almost nearly broken. Those 2 things alone would make me want to level SCH. I'm addicted to healing jobs. Slapping Cure V and taking away the set enmity on it would not make me want to level SCH.

Also, while I do agree that WHM would still be the better healer even if SCH got Cure V, others might not see it that way. You have that spell to reduce your enmity gain, or something to that effect. Then with Rapture, figuring it would work with V (don't see why it wouldn't). SCH can make AOE erase (Esuna, though not taking more than one effect). SCH can cast barspells paired with AOE phalanx. AOE Soneskin. 1/tick regain (not much, but still equates to something).

I understand charges can be limiting, but my friend, before the update, had no problem balancing them out. People would look at WHM the way it was before. And, lolDivine Caress.

And, they would still be able to manage their MP better, outside abyssea.


TLDR; While giving SCH Cure V wouldn't make it a better healer than WHM, it would again make SCH more desirable than WHM, with all it's utilities and MP management.

As for the Dark Arts side, idk.

[Sotek]

Now, SCH has tons of down falls, and I see no reason what-so-ever for anyone to level it, outside of Libra. I thought Libra was pretty cool.

Please tell me you're trolling. Libra is the worst thing to happen to SCH since SE decided to release the job with an incomplete spell list. I don't even care if SE plans for Libra to make SCH shit friendship and magic in a few update, it was worthless when it was released, worthless when Animus spells were released and is probably only less worthless now because it's (apparently) attached to that horseshit !! proc system.

The way I see SCH could be fixed, and make me actually want to level it, is, as some people have mentioned, a HOT spell greater than regen would be pretty cool. The second is, make Rapture a JA that doesn't rely on a charge, and make the recast be something almost nearly broken.

While I don't particularly have any issue with a buffed up Regen spell, I don't really see the point. Cure V is already there and shouldn't be too difficult to adjust, not to mention Cure IV is a subjob spell soon (or is it already?). Making a spell that heals 200HP/tic would however, require quite a bit of planning and balance. Again, Cure V is already there.
Breaking Rapture however, makes zero sense.

You have that spell to reduce your enmity gain, or something to that effect.

You'd compare Cure V having less hate gain than Cure III to Animus Minuo? You are aware Animus is only a pathetic -5 Enmity, right?

Then with Rapture, figuring it would work with V (don't see why it wouldn't). SCH can make AOE erase (Esuna, though not taking more than one effect). SCH can cast barspells paired with AOE phalanx. AOE Soneskin. 1/tick regain (not much, but still equates to something).

We can lock ourselves for ~1 second using a Stratagem to buff Cures (though I don't think Rapture + Cure V is a wise choice). We can use a Stratagem and cast Erase in what takes you one spell. We can cast vastly weaker Bar spells to WHM (and Shell, might I add). We can again, use a Stratagem to cast Stoneskinga which is what you can do with a Cure spell. 1/tic regain is vastly weaker than Haste. Phalanx is good though, always fun to have to run right up to the mob to apply it to the people that need it and run back, makes main healing real easy.

And, they would still be able to manage their MP better, outside abyssea.

Huh? MP management? Between Refresh II, Ballad III, a surplus of gear that enhances both, a surplus of new Refresh gear, and Convert or Sublimation (and Light Arts + Penury), WHM shouldn't have any major MP issues anymore.

[Aaralyn]

Please tell me you're trolling. Libra is the worst thing to happen to SCH since SE decided to release the job with an incomplete spell list. I don't even care if SE plans for Libra to make SCH shit friendship and magic in a few update, it was worthless when it was released, worthless when Animus spells were released and is probably only less worthless now because it's (apparently) attached to that horseshit !! proc system.



While I don't particularly have any issue with a buffed up Regen spell, I don't really see the point. Cure V is already there and shouldn't be too difficult to adjust, not to mention Cure IV is a subjob spell soon (or is it already?). Making a spell that heals 200HP/tic would however, require quite a bit of planning and balance. Again, Cure V is already there.
Breaking Rapture however, makes zero sense.



You'd compare Cure V having less hate gain than Cure III to Animus Minuo? You are aware Animus is only a pathetic -5 Enmity, right?



We can lock ourselves for ~1 second using a Stratagem to buff Cures (though I don't think Rapture + Cure V is a wise choice). We can use a Stratagem and cast Erase in what takes you one spell. We can cast vastly weaker Bar spells to WHM. We can again, use a Stratagem to cast Stoneskinga which is what you can do with a Cure spell. 1/tic regain is vastly weaker than Haste. Phalanx is good though, always fun to have to run right up to the mob to apply it to the people that need it and run back, makes main healing real easy.



Huh? MP management? Between Refresh II, Ballad III, a surplus of gear that enhances both, a surplus of new Refresh gear, and Convert or Sublimation (and Light Arts + Penury), WHM shouldn't have any major MP issues anymore.

It's all essentially the same thing.

I'm talking about the light arts side of it. Which, from my understanding, people /WHM for. So you would have haste and be able to give 1/tick regain.

I'm pretty sure SCH gets access to the same refresh gear WHM does, excluding Orison Bliuad +2. I don't know if SCH empyrean body has refresh. I know there's the WOTG earring, Wivre Hairpin is any job, pretty sure Stearc subligar was any job, Owleyes. Am I missing anything? Then if you're going to throw in Refresh II and ballads, same could be said of SCH. But in cases where there isn't refresh II or ballads, SCH has this refresh gear and a better sublimation.

People aren't going to care that WHM has better barspells. They didn't care before. They didn't care that we gave stoneskin (though not as strong as now) through curing before, either. They were both able to do the exact same job, though SCH managed MP better and was crowd control since /RDM was better then.

A HOT spell, I think would make SCH and WHM compliment each other nicely, with the right implementations.


"Phalanx is good though, always fun to have to run right up to the mob to apply it to the people that need it and run back, makes main healing real easy. "

And we don't have to do this for Esuna?

As far as Aminus Minuo, I'm sure you can find the right set of gear that has a good balance of cure potency, -enmity and MND. I know my friend had a good one. I'll have to ask her what it was. Or put one together myself. Aminus Minuo is 1 to 2 less slots taking -ENM in gear.

Breaking Rapture in a good way. Like, making the recast 3 minutes, or something that is nearly on the verge of being unbalanced.