Concerns about SCH.

[Thuggin]

Cure VI costs too much and only heals a little more then Cure V, cure 6 is a joke.

[Bureikun]

Cure VI costs too much and only heals a little more then Cure V, cure 6 is a joke.

This is what I meant by needing to "fix" Cure VI. Isn't the floor on it like 750? What a pathetic waste of mp. But having said that don't you think it seems like SE just gave WHM cure 6 as something to fall back on when the cure 5 recast timer isnt up yet.. seeing as we all know cure VI is pointless outside of abyssea, and most of the time cure IV is pointless inside of it. WHM has to pay the extra cost in mp to have the option of casting cure 6 instead of cure 4.. as such it's like an emergency option.

Though thinking that way makes me think calling it cure 6 is stupid too... thus it needs a fix

[Hiroshiko]

This is what I meant by needing to "fix" Cure VI. Isn't the floor on it like 750? What a pathetic waste of mp. But having said that don't you think it seems like SE just gave WHM cure 6 as something to fall back on when the cure 5 recast timer isnt up yet.. seeing as we all know cure VI is pointless outside of abyssea, and most of the time cure IV is pointless inside of it. WHM has to pay the extra cost in mp to have the option of casting cure 6 instead of cure 4.. as such it's like an emergency option.

Though thinking that way makes me think calling it cure 6 is stupid too... thus it needs a fix

Ah, that clarifies it a bit more then. With my current 50% Cure potency build, Cure V heals about 1,100-1,200 HP and Cure VI is 1,400-1500 HP. Not a very large difference considering the MP cost. It really does seem as if it was designed as a fallback as you said. If they fixed Cure VI to the point that it wasn't so inefficient, then I could see SCH and RDM getting Cure V and not encroaching on WHM too much. Cure VI can give up to 400 HP in Stoneskin with Orison Bliaud +2, so if they reduced the MP cost it would be a nice way to reduce damage before it happened. Though Healing Magic skill in general could use a little tweak...

[Rambus]

Ah, that clarifies it a bit more then. With my current 50% Cure potency build, Cure V heals about 1,100-1,200 HP and Cure VI is 1,400-1500 HP. Not a very large difference considering the MP cost. It really does seem as if it was designed as a fallback as you said. If they fixed Cure VI to the point that it wasn't so inefficient, then I could see SCH and RDM getting Cure V and not encroaching on WHM too much. Cure VI can give up to 400 HP in Stoneskin with Orison Bliaud +2, so if they reduced the MP cost it would be a nice way to reduce damage before it happened. Though Healing Magic skill in general could use a little tweak...

I know cure VI needs changing to allow cure V to go to RDM and SCH ( PLD is a job main with cures it should get cure V too if you ask me)

that is why they need to change the enm on cure V and just give a cure enm trait to whm ( that works outside of caps)

[Hiroshiko]

I know cure VI needs changing to allow cure V to go to RDM and SCH ( PLD is a job main with cures it should get cure V too if you ask me)

that is why they need to change the enm on cure V and just give a cure enm trait to whm ( that works outside of caps)

I think someone suggested it earlier here or in another thread... SE could remove Cure V special enmity properties, and then give WHM a lv50 job trait that reduces cure enmity, so that the new Cure V generates roughly the same enmity as the old one. Or maybe a little more, but the rest of cures generate less since they're affected by it, or whatever. This would solve the enmity issues.

As for potency issues, rework Cure formulas so that MND and SPECIALLY healing skill are determinant in the spell potency: There you go, RDM and SCH has Cure V, but generates more enmity and can't heal as much (while still being clearly superior to Cure IV).

I really like the bolded parts. I saw that mentioned before as well but I must have overlooked it at the time. However, that would make WHM distinct from the other mages and wouldn't necessarily be anything WHM didn't had before (especially since a lot of the newer gear lacks -emn where we once had Blessed). Plus, it will effectively allow PLD to have a use for Cure V as an enmity tool as well (though I still don't see them using it as much since Cure V would probably burn their MP pool in a few casts.)

And yes, Healing Magic Skill makes me rage and a fix to the formula would definitely be appreciated. When I first saw the Orison Bliaud's augments, I /facepalmed seeing the Healing Magic Skill because it seems like the design team doesn't realize how insignificant it is in the formula compared to MND. The Refresh +2 and "Solaceskin" cap break was its saving grace. However, WHM naturally has higher skill and an adjustment to the formula would benefit all the mages equally.

(And yes I know this isn't the WHM forum... I have SCH too.) *disclaimer*

[Zatana]

Some thoughts on Sch:

Damage really isn't an issue with the job at the moment in my opinion. Black Mages may be able to out nuke a Sch, but I still feel that I can go toe to toe with them, and even out nuke a lot of the less well geared Blms. My Blizzard IVs typically hit 4.8k, and break 5k on Iceday. While this won't compete with a full Empyrean +2 BLM's set bonus in the slightest, it's still more than enough, as that will one shot, or at least take off about 90% of an average mob's HP. The reason I find that I can't keep up with BLMs, or am asked to go Blm to an event rather than Sch, is primarily either due to lacking yellow triggers (unavoidable) or not being able to AOE nuke. Not that I'm saying Sch should be able to AOE nuke, but that's just how it is most of the time.
(Furthermore, as for DPS, with Quick Cast from the set bonus, etc., a Sch can effectively double cast spells, or triple or more, if lucky. That, in my opinion, really can compete with a BLM's Conserve MP augment.)

I admit the casting speed is a bit annoying. I was also of the opinion that Sch should be able to nuke faster, but maybe not quite as hard as a BLM (Quick Cast seems to back this up to an extent). I do feel though, that a well geared SCH with Fast Cast etc. can keep up with a BLM. The fact that a SCH would have to work so much harder to keep up with a BLM, especially after being used to being faster than a BLM, bugs me. That's life though.

I think hopefully by 99, with the completion of the Tier V spells Sch should be able to hold its own across the board with BLM.

On the Light Arts side of things, I think (like most people) that Sch is definitely lacking in the healing category. However, I would say that outside of Abyssea, nothing much has changed, and that Cure IV will still suffice, especially with an enhanced Rapture from Savant's Bonnet +1/2 and some minor Cure Potency gear. With atma and gear I can get 6-700 Cure IVs in Abyssea, but even then Cure V would really help. I one thing to consider though, is whether or not SE will really pursue Abyssea in the next version update. I'm not really sure what direction they'll take, but if it's outside of Abyssea, we won't really need Cure V on SCH (and WHM probably won't get much use out of Cure VI either.)

Things I would like to see changed about Sch:

Cure V (see above)

Libra ranged extended - Seriously, having to move into range of AOE's to use a mage ability is kind of counterintuitive.

Pax and Tranquility/Equanimity - I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, because I know a lot of people don't like these Stratagems, but with the effects of Animus Minuo up I was unable to activate Tranquility. This makes no sense to me. I really didn't think that the -5 or -10 from Animus Minuo and however much enmity merited from Tranquility would be a game breaker, and for them to not work together reduces the already minimal use of those two Stratagems. I'd like to see them stack.

Modus Veritas - Could that please at least work again? Like on NMs, where it might actually count? I get that it was hax instantly killing stuff, but you didn't have to get rid of it altogether…

Adloquium - I think another tick of Regain would make this infinitely better. Even if it had to come in form of some piece of gear, I would really like a two tick Adloquium. (Though I appreciate having it in general.)

Helices - I'm actually pretty happy with how much damage I can do with a Helix spell. Under good (Abyssea) conditions, I can hit 800 damage, which totals up to enough to one shot most mobs in Abyssea. I was thinking Helices II would be neat, and not necessarily overpowered. Perhaps extended duration, or maybe a faster tick, not necessarily more damage. Also, I think the idea of being able to AOE Helices, while not always practical, would be an interesting addition, and perhaps a way to stand toe to toe with BLMs in the AOE department, without stepping on their toes for straight Damage.

Stormsurge II - For future Merits and Abilities, I thought that a Stormsurge II could be very interesting. I love the Storm spells; I think they're a distinguishing trait to SCH. I'd like to see the Spells themselves get better, but I think this would be a decent compromise. The one problem I have with the Stormspells is that even with Stormsurge, they're still very mage centric buffs. I'd like to see a bit more use for other jobs as well. Stormsurge is a start, but with base cruor buffs being more than a fully merited Stormsurge, sometimes it's just easier to overlook them for melee. I think additional effects correlated to the spell's element would be nice. IE: Thunder correlates to DEX, which relates to ACC. Stormsurge II would raise the ACC a bit in addition to the DEX. I think this could be balanced properly to really make the spells worth adding to melee as well as nuking jobs. Fire could be ATK, Wind: EVA, Earth: DEF or maybe PDT-, Water: MDT-, Ice: MAB, Light: Magic Evasion and Dark could be a bit of everything like the original Stormsurge (Though something entirely different could be fun.)

Oh, and this probably won't happen/goes against standard SCH thinking, but I would really, really love to be able to AOE Silence, Slow and Paralyze, but I would totally settle for Silence alone. Kinda greedy, I know, but it would be so fun to screw with some of the worm camps in Abyssea by Silencega'ing. </3 worm camps…

Sorry for the huge post, but after reading through 7 or so pages of this post, I just had all of this bouncing around my head and really had to get it out .-.;

PS: I have seen that exact same thing happen to my Libra on Glavoid.

[Sotek]

Libra ranged extended - Seriously, having to move into range of AOE's to use a mage ability is kind of counterintuitive.

Modus Veritas - Could that please at least work again? Like on NMs, where it might actually count? I get that it was hax instantly killing stuff, but you didn't have to get rid of it altogether…

This is the bare minimum I expect from next update.

Modus Veritas is worthless as it is. Before the exploit hardly anyone used its stacking ability, why make the ability worthless when you can just remove the worthless aspect of? Just make it so it doesn't stack. Problem solved.

Libra? Well I could go off on how worthless an addition to the game Libra and Animus spells were, but I doubt anyone is interested. I'll actually waste my MP on Animus spells though, I absolutely refuse to use Libra, maybe if I can use it without moving I may at least use the worthless ability.