Concerns about SCH.

[Sonshou]

I have been screening the forum... I seen many cry about lack of fire power and low cure potency without cure5. I can feel it, but I accept that is what SCH suppose to be. I have Scholar only because the School uniform looks good on my character anyway.

But I do think something is missing with SCH since before Abyssea is out..... Why SCH, as a tactician of battlefield, have never ever get any spell that lower or alter elemental resistance of enemies? BLM get AM to lower target's elemental resistant, even throught they get enmity from it. NIN has elemental wheel to alter a bit. BRD do songs. But we SCHOLARS are TACTICIAN OF BATTLEFIELD, we should get something that change the tide of battle. And I do think elemental resistance have a great deal to turn tide of a battle.

My original thought was that.... the Helix spell.... perhaps they should get to have the effect of altering elemental resistance, increase effect over time. But no, the developers don't think it is necessary.

Other option: the "Storms" spell.... I think it would be nice to use weather to alter enemy's elemental resistance? but... that is a spell that can only cast on party member, player characters. Why can't we alter the weather around our foes?

And we are called the tactician of battlefield... how useless we are in terms of turning ties of battlefield. We're nothing but a subsitude for BLMs or WHMs. Nuke or Cure.... is that all we are?

[Bureikun]

Why are people against giving other jobs cure 5? Fact is we haven't had a cure upgrade in 40 levels! 40. That's F-O-R-T-Y. I don't care how much you want to bitch and moan, that's ludicrous. Does it need to be cure 5 yes. because i don't see a spell coming out called "Cure IV.V".. it looks stupid namely.

And don't for a second tell me that rapture is good enough. Lets see here. 48 sec stratagem recharge. So after the first 5 raptures you spam.. you're screwed. And most of the time now if an NM does drops a 2k dmg bomb you're looking at at least 3 of those raptures just to get them back to white health. And if the only thing you're spending your stratagems on is rapture... tsk tsk tsk you're a crappy sch. So this means rapture is out of the picture... what then I ask.. what then? And let's say that was an AoE 2k dmg bomb, or if the NM is spamming it.

Not that I'm saying I can't keep up most days. But good grief if I have to heal more than one person? Someone's gonna die usually. Luckily no one cares about exp loss but sigh =/ that's not good enough for my image as a healer.

Edit: On a side note... will anyone care once/if they fix cure 6?

[Miera]

Depends on what do you mean by "fix" WHMs cure up to 1k with Cure V and I've almost seen almost 2k Cure VI dropped on someone... I don't think It needs much of a fix..

[Pebe]

In regards to cure potency you guys are forgetting that we get 15% over whm from aurastorm + korin obi and twilight cape.
Cure V would be awesome but, we could make our cure Vs surpass whm's easily considering we can boost it by 75% more than whm can, without even touching cure potency. Rapture + Savant's Bonnet +2 and the storm obi cape combo i talked about earlier. So as you can see, that would make us encroach on whm's cure territory before even trying to implement some of the creative ability enhancements in the other thread. Cure V is just that awesome. The reason cure VI needs fixing is because it is not mp effiecient in the least for the amount of hp it cures. And it also has a good amount of hate. It is one of the least mp efficient cures without combining it with penury. Where as I think cure V is the most efficient (haven't actually calculated).

[Hiroshiko]

In regards to cure potency you guys are forgetting that we get 15% over whm from aurastorm + korin obi and twilight cape.
Cure V would be awesome but, we could make our cure Vs surpass whm's easily considering we can boost it by 75% more than whm can, without even touching cure potency. Rapture + Savant's Bonnet +2 and the storm obi cape combo i talked about earlier. So as you can see, that would make us encroach on whm's cure territory before even trying to implement some of the creative ability enhancements in the other thread. Cure V is just that awesome. The reason cure VI needs fixing is because it is not mp effiecient in the least for the amount of hp it cures. And it also has a good amount of hate. It is one of the least mp efficient cures without combining it with penury. Where as I think cure V is the most efficient (haven't actually calculated).

Thank you for this. You pretty much summed most of my concerns about Cure V. I agree with most people that something must be done for SCH and RDM in the healing department inside of Abyssea. Cure IV clearing isn't keeping up and anyone /WHM (and eventualy /RDM) is/will have be able to utilize Cure IV. However, we have to consider the situation outside of Abyssea. Even though Abyssea seems to dominate FFXI at the moment, there are still things to do outside and we don't know what is to come in the future.

SCH gets a decent amount of Cure potency gear:
-15% from Aurorastorm with Korin Obi and Twilight Cape (plus additional amounts with the day bonus); additionally, these bonuses do not count towards the 50% cap.
-5% from the Serpentes Hands/Feet Set or 4% from Augur's Gloves
-22% from Surya's Staff
-2% from Fylgja's Torque (3% with +1)
-5% from Tatsumaki Sitagomoro (add-on augments)
-3% from Selenian Cap

A "perfect set" would give you: 38/50% towards the cap + 15% from the Aurorastorm pieces (putting you at 53% potency since the Aurorastorm pieces don't count towards the cap). You can add one of the Cure potency atmas to make that 48/50% + 15% from Aurorastorm. That's not too shabby considering the bonus from Rapture (though some of potency would be lost if Savant's Bonnet +2 was used). Inside Abyssea, this would be enough for SCH to perform well with Cure V yet not overshadow WHM. However, outside of Abyssea, SCHs efficiency would outstrip WHM.

As Pebe said, Cure VI is very MP inefficient both inside and outside of Abyssea. However, inside Abyssea all of the Refresh atma cloud this issue. On the other hand, once you step outside of Abyssea, Cure VI becomes unnecessary. Personally, I made my macros so that I can swap out Cures VI when I'm not in Abyssea because 1) DD don't have the HP pool to warrant anything beyond Cure V and 2) DD aren't taking ridiculous amounts of damage. Giving SCH (and RDM, can't really exclude them) Cure V without some consideration towards future updates or content outside of Abyssea could potentially lead to unbalance. Other posters and I have mentioned potentially altering the Cure formula to make Healing Magic Skill have a more significant effect. I have both WHM and SCH at 90, so I can attest to the fact that Cure IV isn't cutting it anymore inside Abyssea because it's not potent enough nor do we have a second Cure to fall back on. However, outside of Abyssea, the problem isn't as significant. Abyssea may be the bulk of everything now, but the future is yet to be determined.

I like the suggestions other have made toward carving out a unique niche for SCH. Rather than take bits and pieces from WHM, BLM, and RDM, what SCH really needs now is something more defining that will draw the community towards using it. No matter what SE gives us it is up to the community to determine its value. Adloquium and Animus Spells were a first step, but their potency was less than stellar. I can't think of any ideas at the moment, but I would like to see something unique that will make the community more willing to include a SCH (other than another !! trigger because that's only useful inside Abyssea).

[Thuggin]

Cure VI costs too much and only heals a little more then Cure V, cure 6 is a joke.

[Bureikun]

Cure VI costs too much and only heals a little more then Cure V, cure 6 is a joke.

This is what I meant by needing to "fix" Cure VI. Isn't the floor on it like 750? What a pathetic waste of mp. But having said that don't you think it seems like SE just gave WHM cure 6 as something to fall back on when the cure 5 recast timer isnt up yet.. seeing as we all know cure VI is pointless outside of abyssea, and most of the time cure IV is pointless inside of it. WHM has to pay the extra cost in mp to have the option of casting cure 6 instead of cure 4.. as such it's like an emergency option.

Though thinking that way makes me think calling it cure 6 is stupid too... thus it needs a fix

[TimeMage]

I think someone suggested it earlier here or in another thread... SE could remove Cure V special enmity properties, and then give WHM a lv50 job trait that reduces cure enmity, so that the new Cure V generates roughly the same enmity as the old one. Or maybe a little more, but the rest of cures generate less since they're affected by it, or whatever. This would solve the enmity issues.

As for potency issues, rework Cure formulas so that MND and SPECIALLY healing skill are determinant in the spell potency: There you go, RDM and SCH has Cure V, but generates more enmity and can't heal as much (while still being clearly superior to Cure IV).

[Hiroshiko]

This is what I meant by needing to "fix" Cure VI. Isn't the floor on it like 750? What a pathetic waste of mp. But having said that don't you think it seems like SE just gave WHM cure 6 as something to fall back on when the cure 5 recast timer isnt up yet.. seeing as we all know cure VI is pointless outside of abyssea, and most of the time cure IV is pointless inside of it. WHM has to pay the extra cost in mp to have the option of casting cure 6 instead of cure 4.. as such it's like an emergency option.

Though thinking that way makes me think calling it cure 6 is stupid too... thus it needs a fix

Ah, that clarifies it a bit more then. With my current 50% Cure potency build, Cure V heals about 1,100-1,200 HP and Cure VI is 1,400-1500 HP. Not a very large difference considering the MP cost. It really does seem as if it was designed as a fallback as you said. If they fixed Cure VI to the point that it wasn't so inefficient, then I could see SCH and RDM getting Cure V and not encroaching on WHM too much. Cure VI can give up to 400 HP in Stoneskin with Orison Bliaud +2, so if they reduced the MP cost it would be a nice way to reduce damage before it happened. Though Healing Magic skill in general could use a little tweak...

[Rambus]

Ah, that clarifies it a bit more then. With my current 50% Cure potency build, Cure V heals about 1,100-1,200 HP and Cure VI is 1,400-1500 HP. Not a very large difference considering the MP cost. It really does seem as if it was designed as a fallback as you said. If they fixed Cure VI to the point that it wasn't so inefficient, then I could see SCH and RDM getting Cure V and not encroaching on WHM too much. Cure VI can give up to 400 HP in Stoneskin with Orison Bliaud +2, so if they reduced the MP cost it would be a nice way to reduce damage before it happened. Though Healing Magic skill in general could use a little tweak...

I know cure VI needs changing to allow cure V to go to RDM and SCH ( PLD is a job main with cures it should get cure V too if you ask me)

that is why they need to change the enm on cure V and just give a cure enm trait to whm ( that works outside of caps)