Unable to complete "Content:Limbus > Spoils" quests after March Version Update

[GoltanaBuukki]

That doesn't say that at all, if you ask me. But again, with the content being out for multiple updates, it could just be another step in the process. If the items are going to be permanently unavailable then those objectives should be removed/replaced. That they haven't done that yet means either they forgot, they don't care, or they intend to make them doable again.

But like I said... I don't think most people ever farmed chips for this purpose....

If they forgot...that's why a thread was made =p
The chips are necessary to clear the ROE. If you're after Mastery Rank or some other objective that requires ROE count completion (certain Trusts), they matter. It doesn't matter if only one person will ever clear the objective, it should be clearable, and if they forget to re-release these chips in the future, without changing the ROE, that's an oversight.

[Alhanelem]

The chips are necessary to clear the ROE. If you're after Mastery Rank or some other objective that requires ROE count completion (certain Trusts), they matter.

Mastery Rank doesn't do anything and doesn't matter, it's just a number that (very) vaguely represents how much of everything you've completed, there's no reward for raising it and has no function other than inflating a few people's egos- it was only put in for the assist channel, so newcomers would have a loose idea of how experienced the person helping them might be. Those "certain trusts" can easily be acquired without doing these objectives either.

It does matter if "only one person" will ever clear it, it means its a low priority issue, and it will be sorted whenever it gets sorted, most likely by the time the limbus revamp is completed. People need to have patience.

When you're developing a game with a skeleton crew, things have varying degrees of importance and you need to focus your work where it accomplishes the most important goals first. That doesn't mean it won't be addressed, it jsut means right now the goal is "do the limbus revamp." (and the race change thing and whatever else is going on)

[Dragoy]

So the objectives were finally removed, but the number completed (if they were completed) remains.

Wonder if there are plans to address that in some way...

[Alhanelem]

So the objectives were finally removed, but the number completed (if they were completed) remains.

Wonder if there are plans to address that in some way...

There isn't anything to address. The number is just a statistic and doesn't mean anything. There's no reward for maxing this number out, and they can keep adding more to un-max it if you're obsessed with maxing arbitrary meaningless numbers.

[Dragoy]

There isn't anything to address. The number is just a statistic and doesn't mean anything. There's no reward for maxing this number out, and they can keep adding more to un-max it if you're obsessed with maxing arbitrary meaningless numbers.

Well, there are quests directly linked to the number completed... and well, to them completionists, it doth mattereth regardless.

I'm only at 998 completed myself, still, so not exactly counting myself into them that most care about this number, but I still think it matters, and should be addressed in some way.

[Alhanelem]

Well, there are quests directly linked to the number completed...

Yeah, but you don't need to complete all of them, so... once you pass that threshold, it doesn't matter.

And for the completionists, well it sucks to be them I guess, since those objectives can't be completed anymore. Look at it as bonus points towards the current number of objectives.

There's no point in showing people objectives that can't be completed on account of the content not really existing anymore.

[Zenion]

Yeah, but you don't need to complete all of them, so...

You don't need to reach master level 50.

You don't need to make a relic, mythic, empyrean, or aeonic weapon.

You don't need to complete all the storylines.

You don't need to master a job.

You don't need to do Chains of Promathia and Seekers of Adoulin.

You don't need to level a job to 75.

You don't need to install Final Fantasy XI.

Don't pull that thread, man. Absolutely none of what we're doing here is mandatory in any way, so don't act like that's an excuse to say something isn't a valid part of the gameplay experience.

[Alhanelem]

You don't need to reach master level 50.

You don't need to make a relic, mythic, empyrean, or aeonic weapon.

You don't need to complete all the storylines.

You don't need to master a job.

You don't need to do Chains of Promathia and Seekers of Adoulin.

You don't need to level a job to 75.

You don't need to install Final Fantasy XI.

Don't pull that thread, man. Absolutely none of what we're doing here is mandatory in any way, so don't act like that's an excuse to say something isn't a valid part of the gameplay experience.

This is manufactured outrage. No one was even talking about or discussing this before this happened.

In order to make those objectives completable again they'd have to literally undo all the work they've just done to bring us new content. Is +1 to a counter really more important?

Your comment is 10x more ridiculous than mine could ever hope to be, you're taking what I said and ramping it to hyperbolic extremes. But since you want to play this game more than I do apparently, let's break it down. You're conflating things in the game which have a functional purpose with those which do not.

You don't need to reach master level 50.

This has a functional purpose of increasing character power and making content easier.

You don't need to make a relic, mythic, empyrean, or aeonic weapon.

This has a functional purpose of increasing character power and making content easier.

You don't need to complete all the storylines.

This has the functional puprose of being one of the main objectives of the game.

You don't need to master a job.

This has a functional purpose of increasing character power and making content easier.

You don't need to do Chains of Promathia and Seekers of Adoulin.

You're repeating yourself, as this is encompassed by "completing all storylines" above, but again, this has the functional purpose of being one of the main objectives of the game.

You don't need to level a job to 75.

This again is encompassed by the above but This has a functional purpose of increasing character power and making content easier.

You don't need to install Final Fantasy XI.

This is the literal reason why all of us are here.

Meanwhile, The "Objectives completed" counter is just that, a counter, it can be seen as an interesting statistic but otherwise has no functional use (after a certain point). You're comparing core elements of gameplay with a number in a window that does basically nothing.

They don't have to make everything useful. There's lots of useless things in the game. People have demanded a use for job points after maxing them out. We don't need to ensure every thing always has a purpose.

If you want to make a number bigger just for the sake of making it bigger and no other reason, be my (all of ours') guest. But that doesn't mean they "need' to address anything about it. It is just a statistic, and that's all it was ever meant to be, people read too far into things and assume and decide there MUST be a functional purpose for EVERYTHING.

Answer me this: What could they do anyway? Just give everyone credit for all the removed objectives even if they never played the relevant content before? What about the Vana'bout objectives that haven't returned? What about anything else they've ever removed or changed, like Old Dynamis? Are they not allowed to improve the game just because it might make a certain point total on a counter unattainable?

Giving everyone credit would render the stat more meaningless than it already is. If you see it as an achievement tracking counter, well, now you have "achievements' that people got credit for without ever actually achieving them.

So that leaves us with undoing this update and undoing all the work of the devs trying to make an old content new and relevant again, just to let you get some +1s on a counter that you (somebody) missed. And that doesn't seem like a good option.

[Zenion]

increasing character power
increasing character power
objectives of the game.
increasing character power
objectives of the game.
increasing character power
This is the literal reason why all of us are here.

"Number goes up" and "arbitrary goal". That's it. That's the game. That's why we're playing. There's no special trophy for completing the story, you don't get a screen at the end saying "hey, good job, you beat the game, you can go outside now." It's just a goal. No more special or important than any other.

Character levels, power, all it is is running on a treadmill, make the number go up so you can do the thing that gets you the thing that makes the number go up more. Not a bit of it matters any more than any given player decides that it matters. There's a guy over in another thread asking about bonanza prizes for people who choose to play at level 75. I think that's crazy, but at the end of the day, that's still just as valid a way to experience the game as any other.

Just because you, personally, don't see any particular value in Records of Eminence doesn't invalidate the experience of a player who has decided that their one true goal, their whole reason for playing the game, is to see each and every one of those particular arbitrary progress trackers completed. If that is the number that they want to go up, this will be important to them.

Now, as for the question of what they could do... well, the minimum effort approach would have been to remove the objectives whether completed or not - if nobody can do the thing, then the thing doesn't count for anyone, those completions should be revoked. I say this as somebody had those completed, and is interested in completing as many RoE objectives as possible for mastery level purposes. I don't like that the objectives are gone, but if they're going to be, they should be gone in a consistent manner. The biggest number should be the same number for everybody.

The slightly more involved approach would be, and I know this one's going to be pretty wild and out there but... not rendering the objectives impossible to complete. The chips may not do anything any more, but they could have been obtainable as treasure obtainable after completing certain subsets of the "kill x monsters" gameplay loop of new Limbus. Ancient beastcoins may not really be relevant any more, but who would have complained about occasionally picking up something they could trade in for a couple of them?

Or hey, why not actually go one step further and repurpose the chips as items used to spawn Proto-Ultima and Proto-Omega, because removing those from the game has also made it impossible for players to unlock certain atma, which is still relevant for anyone who wants empyrean armor or empyrean weapons. Just give them a little corner of the zone they used to appear in, put a Confrontation status on an alliance that has spawned them, that could have fit into the new design. Maybe do the same for Arch-Ultima and Arch-Omega, since there doesn't seem to be a way to get the titles for defeating those any more either, and that renders a vorseal inaccessible.

But now, let me ask you this: How much of the old FFXI is it okay to erase to make room for new stuff? Would you be okay with Dynamis getting shuttered so a new iteration can be released for making relic armor +5? How about clearing out all the monsters in the Shrine of Ru'Avitau and Ve'Lugannon Palace, to fill them with locus monster camps? Adding new content is great, but if it's going to come at the expense of never being able to experience old content again, we're going to have a Ship of Theseus problem before long: How much of Final Fantasy XI can we replace before it's no longer Final Fantasy XI?

(Incidentally: Promathia and Adoulin got special specific callouts for being the content you need to nearly fully complete to unlock major endgame content. Which, nope, nobody needs to do.)

[Alhanelem]

"Number goes up" and "arbitrary goal". That's it. That's the game. That's why we're playing.

You might personally reduce this down to "number goes up" but the game means more than that to nearly all of us.

Your overtly dramatic oversimplification does nothing for your case.

Just because you, personally, don't see any particular value in Records of Eminence doesn't invalidate the experience of a player who has decided that their one true goal, their whole reason for playing the game, is to see each and every one of those particular arbitrary progress trackers completed.

Yeah, well I can point out to you a lengthy list of unobtainable items, removed/changed content, that literally make the goal of "achieving/getting" everything impossible. Strangely, though, you're still here. I figured if they made your personal objective impossible that you'd quit.

There are a multitude of merch related items, many of which were only ever available in Japan, and the codes expire, so even if you found one that hadn't been used, well too bad for you. Contents change, game gets updated. Like I said, they don't "need" to "address" anything. The best you can ever do is just accept that MMOs change and evolve over time and they don't have to cater to you any more than they have to cater to me. Based on your own logic you should really be thankful they gave you new content with more upgrades to collect for the sake of collecting, rather than mad that some other number can't get as high as you want it to.

Now, as for the question of what they could do... well, the minimum effort approach would have been to remove the objectives whether completed or not - if nobody can do the thing, then the thing doesn't count for anyone, those completions should be revoked.

While this is the more balanced approach, I think anyone who cares about this statistic will not be happy to see it go down, even if this solution more equally affects everyone. It still effectively forgets a past accomplishment for some players.

After FFXIV 1.0, many of the achievements found in the game prior to A Realm Reborn were suddenly no longer relevant or attainable. Others were impacted in irrepreable ways, such as the rate at which we earn gil changing having an effect on how difficult achievements relating to gil were to obtain. Ones that could be adjusted were and kept in the game, but all the others, rather than being removed, were simply relegated to a "legacy" category instead. This honors the efforts those players made playing the game when most people didn't want to. I don't really agree that that stuff should just be forgotten because the game changed, even if it is the most "fair" way to do it.

The slightly more involved approach would be, and I know this one's going to be pretty wild and out there but... not rendering the objectives impossible to complete. The chips may not do anything any more, but they could have been obtainable as treasure obtainable after completing certain subsets of the "kill x monsters" gameplay loop of new Limbus. Ancient beastcoins may not really be relevant any more, but who would have complained about occasionally picking up something they could trade in for a couple of them?

Thing is this rather changes the meaning of those items, which used to have significance but now exist solely to complete these RoEs. I don't really think an otherwise useless item that doesn't even have any novelty / asthetic / other value should really be retained just for the sake of an objective that probably the vast majority of us never bothered to complete- Limbus was mostly irrelevant before those objectives were even added.