FFXI Retail - Treasure Hunter test

[Dihlyte]

Hello,

I am testing Treasure Hunter and the idea that there is a "cap" on treasure hunter gear, and here are my findings.


(This test will be on going, and I will break it down into sections easy to read for the reader.)


____________________________________________________________

Method:

Multiple tests across various mobs.

Day 1.)

Thief/Warrior (Master level 25)
Bight Uragnite
Yahse Hunting Grounds
-Pulled with Provoke to land Treasure Hunter 8
-Proc'd using only auto attacks, performed no other actions during battle

-Treasure Hunter 8 equipment:
++Gandring (No offhand weapon)
++Herculean Helm (Augmented with Treasure Hunter +2)
++(No other equipment used at all)

-Treasure Hunter 19 Equipment:
++Gandring (No offhand weapon)
++Herculean Helm (Augmented with Treasure Hunter +2)
+Plunderer's Armlets +3
++Chaac Belt
++Skulker's Poulaines +3
++Perfect Lucky Egg
++(No other equipment used at all)

Trusts:
Sakura, Apururu, Cornelia

Day 2.)

Thief/Warrior (Master level 25)
Apex Eft
Moh Gates
-Pulled with Provoke to land Treasure Hunter 8
-Proc'd using only auto attacks, performed no other actions in battle

-Treasure Hunter 8 equipment:
Gandring (no offhand weapon)
Herculean Helm (Augmented with Treasure Hunter +2)
Malignance Gloves
Malignance Tabard
Malignance Boots
Toutatis's Cape
Malignance Tights
Ilabrat Ring
Chirich Ring +1
Lissome Necklace
Sherida Earring
Skulker's Earring +1
Aurgelmir Orb +1


-Treasure Hunter 19 Equipment:
Gandring
Herculean Helm (Augmented with Treasure Hunter +2)
Plunderer's Armlets +3
Chaac Belt
Skulker's Poulaines +3
Perfect Lucky Egg
Malignance Tabard
Toutatis's Cape
Malignance Tights
Ilabrat Ring
Chirich Ring +1
Lissome Necklace
Sherida Earring
Skulker's Earring +1

Trusts:
Joachim, Ulmia, Apururu, Koru-Moru, Monberaux

Day 3.)

Thief/Paladin (Master level 25)
Bight Uragnite
Yahse Hunting Grounds
-Pulled with Flash to land Treasure Hunter 8
-Proc'd using only auto attacks, performed Accomplice and Sentinal to maintain threat.

-Treasure Hunter 8 equipment:
++Thief's Knife level 70 (No offhand weapon)
++Plunderer's Armlets +3
++Malignance Tabard
++Malignance Tights
++(No other equipment used)

-Treasure Hunter 18 Equipment:
++Thief's Knife (No offhand weapon)
++Herculean Helm (Augmented with Treasure Hunter +2)
++Plunderer's Armlets +3
++Chaac Belt
++Skulker's Poulaines +3
++Perfect Lucky Egg
++Malignance Tights (for haste buff to speed things up)


Trusts:
Sakura, Apururu, Cornelia

Important Notice:

Understanding how THF works, as well as reducing all outside influences, such as double attack, enemy levels, critical hit rates, Dexterity and other factors, there does seem to be a "formula" affecting the proc rate.

Findings:
Lower level mobs seem to proc easier and quicker than higher level ones.
(In relation to the players level.)

Going THF/PLD instead of THF/WAR as well as using a level 70 knife instead of the 119 Gandring resulted in significantly lower proc rates, as well as obviously slowing down the attack rate, causing the testing process to become drawn out.


Reason:

Happy Friday everyone!

Sorry to intrude on this thread, but I wanted to share some information about Treasure Hunter.

This post might get a bit complicated since it is about Treasure Hunter, but that is the nature of the beast, as they say.

To shed some light of the background before I drop some knowledge bombs, there was a test performed by your fellow adventurers in Japan, and they noticed that after initially hitting the monster with maximum TH+ gear equipped and then switching to non-TH gear, the rate in which the TH value increased was reduced.

Now that you have the background…

Adding Treasure Hunter+ via equipment, or other means, will not increase the rate at which the Treasure Hunter value grows, as this is a set rate. However, when the value of Treasure Hunter placed on a monster and the value of the Treasure Hunter on your character are different, this will cause the growth rate to vary. With that said, if you want to increase the Treasure Hunter value, it is best to utilize equipment that has the Treasure Hunter+ effect. By unequipping Treasure Hunter+ gear, you are essentially creating a gap between the value placed on the monster and your character, which results in an inefficient means for increasing the TH value.

There have been requests to make it so that it's possible to switch out TH+ gear after the TH effect is placed on a monster, but as there is a concern that this would reduce the value of equipment with Treasure Hunter+ and also takes away all the hard work some players have put into maximize their Treasure Hunter, we would like to keep it as it is currently.

Does not align with:

Treasure Hunter 8
---------------------------
Total Mobs: 40
Total Treasure Hunter 9: 4
Total Treasure hunter 10: 16
Total Treasure hunter 11: 15
Total Treasure hunter 12: 5
Total Treasure hunter 13: 0
Total Treasure hunter 14: 0

Total Treasure Hunter Procs: 101

Total attacks: 23,411
Avarage attacks per mob: 585.275
Average Treasure Hunter procs per mob: 2.525

Average total attacks to get a Treasure Hunter proc: 231.792

Treasure Hunter 14
---------------------------
Total Mobs: 40
Total Treasure Hunter 9: 2
Total Treasure hunter 10: 13
Total Treasure hunter 11: 20
Total Treasure hunter 12: 2
Total Treasure hunter 13: 2
Total Treasure hunter 14: 1

Total Treasure Hunter Procs: 112

Total attacks: 25,183
Avarage attacks per mob: 627.575
Average Treasure Hunter procs per mob: 2.8
Average total attacks to get a Treasure Hunter proc: 224.84

(Found at the following website.)
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/5...th-8-versus-14

Day 1 Results:

1.) Melee rounds until a proc occured
2.) Total Melee rounds vs Procs

Treasure Hunter 19

1.) 52
2.) 70

Treasure Hunter 14

1.) 62
2.) 97

Treasure Hunter 8

1.) 64
2.) 102

Day 2 Results:

1.) Melee rounds until a proc occured
2.) Total Melee rounds vs Procs

Treasure Hunter 19

1.) 82
2.) 131

Treasure Hunter 8

1.) 137
2.) 163


Day 3 Results:


1.) Melee rounds until a proc occurred for a total of Treasure Hunter 14 (maximum)

Treasure Hunter 17

1.) 202

Treasure Hunter 8

1.) 290


Overall Results:

In short:

There is no cap.


(Raw Numbers and Day 1 info etc)

How I tested

Server: Official FFXI Raganarok server.
Job: Master Level 25 Thief
Party: Cornelia trust, Apururu Trust, Sakura Trust.
Enemy: Bight Uragnite
Location: Ceizak Battlegrounds and Yahse Hunting Grounds


Equipment:
-Gandring
-Herculean Helm (Th+2 augment)
-Plunderer's armlets +3
-Chaac belt
-Skulker's poulaines +3
-Perfect lucky egg

Total Treasure Hunter value in equipment = 16
Total Treasure Hunter value overall = 19 (+3 from Thief job)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Treaure Hunter 19 (=3+16) Results:



6 enemies:






1.)
TH9=26
TH10=3
TH11=163
(18 dead)
Total: 192/3 = 64
Overall: 210/3=70

2.)
TH9 =8
TH10= 60
TH11=75
(67 dead)
143/3=47
210/3=70

3.)
-9 (5)
-10 (20)
-11 (168)
(47 dead)
193/3=64
240/3=80

4.)
9 (6)
10 (120)
11 (14)
12 (84)
(23 dead)
224/4=56
247/4=61

5.)
9 (46)
10 (43)
11 (15)
(58 dead)
104/3=34
162/3=54

6.)
9 (68)
10 (26)
(75 dead)
94/2=47
169/2=84


AVERAGE:

-52
or
-70

Melee rounds trigged TH and total melee rounds.

(52 represents number of melee rounds to trigger a proc, 70 represents the total meleel rounds possible to proc.)




++++++++++++++++++++++


Treaure Hunter 14 (=3+11) Results:



TH14:



-9 (14)

-10 (186)

(26 dead)

200/2=100

226/2=113



-9 (109)

-10 (56)

-11 (12)

-12 (21)

(67 dead)

198/4=49

265/4=66



-9 (30)

-10 (53)

(157 dead)

83/2=41

240/2=120



-9 (32)

-10 (57)

(135 dead)

89/2=44

224/2=112





-9 (38)

-10 (4)

-11 (44)

-12 (39)

-13 (54)

(35 dead)

179/5=35

214/5=42



-9 (23)

-10 (189)

(54 dead)

212/2=106

266/2=133

AVERAGE:

=62
=97



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Treaure Hunter 8 (=3+5) Results:


-9 (23)

-10 (58)

-11 (58)

(118 dead)

139/3=46

257/3=85



-9 (27)

-10 (112)

(178 dead)

139/2=69

317/2=158



-9 (7)

-10 (210)

-11 (33)

(11 dead)

250/3=83

261/3=87



-9 (95)

-10 (49)

-11 (123)

-12 (15)

-13 (27)

(85 dead)

309/5=61

394/5=78


AVERAGE:

=64
=102




______________________________________________________________









DAY 1 RESULT


When performing only Auto-Attacks the following numbers represent:

1.) Melee rounds until a proc occured
2.) Total Melee rounds vs Procs

TH19

=52
=70

TH14

=62
=97

TH8

=64
=102






Disregarding all other data, Day 1 concludes there is no cap on Treasure Hunter gear in relation to the ability to proc.


Further testing is required to eliminate the possibility of discrepancies due to low sample size.

Disregarding the sample size, the numbers are extremely consistent, and further testing seems to appear will result in similar averages. Regardless of this prevalent conclusion, further testing shall commence.

Other factors also need to be testing such as proper execution of playing THF as an experienced player, such as utilizing Feint + Sneak Attack to proc sooner with fewer melee rounds to increase Treasure hunter..

Poster has determined that not only does Treasure Hunter equipment not have a "cap" but also likely has a value on top of Feint + Sneak Attack and other factors that come into play to proc treasure hunter, and will further test these possiblities.






















Simply put:

Treasure hunter values on equipment seemingly has no cap.

As previously confirmed by Square-Enix Representative, and made prevalent by the available high level Treasure Hunter equipment within FFXI retail official servers.

It is also believed proc'ing is made significantly easier in higher values of Treasure Hunter armor when coupled with Treasure Hunter Proc'ing Techniques.

(The larger the Treasure Hunter value on equipment, the higher chance and effectiveness, by a dramatic amount, of Feint and Sneak Attack will be made prevalent.)

This means if say Feint and Sneak Attack have a 50% chance to proc, then with more Treasure Hunter equipment, that percent will be further enhanced.

Example 1:
Feint + Sneak attack (alone) = 50%

Feint + Sneak attack (TH5 equipment) = 55%

Feint + Sneak Attack (TH11 equipment) = 61% (minimum impact)

Example 2:
Feint + Sneak Attack (alone) = 50%

Feint + Sneak attack (TH5 equipment) = 55%

Feint + Sneak Attack (TH11+ equipment0 = 100% (maximum impact)

To determine the accuracy of these values, testing must be conducted. Day one did not include such testing.

[Dihlyte]

(Reserved for further testing and results.)

Day 2 Raw number etc

-Test on enemy with higher HP to allow for more procs in the higher level TH values.

-Potentially begin testing Feint + Sneak attack enhancements from higher TH values on equipment.

-Obtain more TH gear to raise the highest value of TH above TH16.


___________________________________________________________________________

Day 2 goals:

Not met, due to new knowledge on how TH works.

Day 2 Results:


AVERAGE:

(TH19) :
-82
-131


(TH8) :
-137
-163


-TH19

124
139

43
105

106
122

54
155


TH8


155
177

157
168

117
148

116
157



Raw numbers:

TH19



-9(21)

-10(36)

-11(425)

-12(15)

(61 dead)



-9(8)

-10(24)

-11(83)

-12(11)

-13 (92)

(311 dead)



-9(6)

-10(62)

-11(265)

-12(24)

-13(176)

(78 dead)



-9(1)

-10(112)

-11(18)

-12(86)

(405 dead)







++++++++++++++++



TH8



-9(68)

-10(34)

-11(480)

-12(38)

(90 dead)



-9(27)

-10(64)

-11(475)

-12(64)

(44 dead)



-9(12)

-10(33)

-11(265)

-12(179)

-13(100)

(154 dead)



-9(44)

-10(12)

-11(133)

-12(275)

(165 dead)





Day 2 conclusion.

It is still 100% apparently more Treasure Hunter equipment equates to better/faster proc's.

What I learned, immediately is the previously posted information regarding Treasure Hunter on another forum site is egregiously poorly collected.

It has been determined that the player was fighting an extremely higher level enemy than their self, or was using double wield weapons.

I have learned after todays test, it is best to test without dual wield, and also without Warrior as a sub job, to reduce the amount of overall attacks.

I also believe the other tester was not keeping their equipment as close to the same as possible, as I learned from day 1 test and day 2 test.

Both days I kept my equipment exactly the same, excluding the treasure hunter equipment itself, which reduces the chance of performing a double attack, or a triple attack, etc.

I shall continue to reduce outliers such as double attacks, triple attacks, and try to come up with a better way to test.

I am now 100% convinced regardless of the troubles reducing outside factors, that it is very clear that treasure hunter equipment does affect the way a THF can proc based on the TH value against the enemy, as stated by the SE representative.

Day 3 results/raw numbers:

235
149
485
-TH8= 290

159
279
167
-TH17=202


Day 3:



THF/PLD

Pull with flash

Trusts:

Sakura

Cornelia (Ulmia)

Apururu



(There seems to be clearly some formula)

Gandring performed much better than THF’s Knife level 70.

Perhaps accuracy/DEX/dagger skill will influence TH procs.



TH8



-9 (18)

-10(81)

-11(300)

-12(440)

-13(17)

-14(554)



-9(25)

-10(48)

-11(15)

-12(166)

-13(29)

-14(610)



-9(22)

-10(228)

-11(177)

-12(730)

-13(771)

-14(823)



TH17



-9(7)

-10(71)

-11(124)

-12(486)

-13(32)

-14(233)



-9(92)

-10(24)

-11(469)

-12(85)

-13(618)

-14(387)



-9(10)

-10(48)

-11(34)

-12(129)

-13(437)

-14(343)

[Dihlyte]

The reason for this testing, is a result of the FFXI community having a shared belief there is a "cap" on treasure hunter equipment, due to a misleading post, by some unconfirmed player, on an unofficial site, potentially even an unofficial testing method.

I am a confirmed user, posting on the official forums, testing within the official Final Fantasy XI online video game environment.

Link to said post that is already proven inconsistent with the official FFXI game, as the post states it takes around 200 which I almost never reached over 200 to proc, even getting to TH13 and 12 on multiple occasions, let alone it being an average.

https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/5...-14/7/#3688782

[Gwydion]

Would it have killed you to use a spreadsheet or explain your testing methodolgy? What you've posted doesn't make sense ...and at first glance, seems to be a sample size too small.

[Dihlyte]

Would it have killed you to use a spreadsheet or explain your testing methodolgy? What you've posted doesn't make sense ...and at first glance, seems to be a sample size too small.

It’s not a finished product.

I plan to rewrite it, and clean it up once I have more time.

I just bought a new PC, and haven’t had time to do anything with this.

As for sample size, it’s pretty clear that more TH equipment 100% has an impact above TH8.

The curve in value from TH 8 to 14 then to 19 was exactly conclusive.

I mention in the post (poorly written I’m aware) that I will keep testing.

I need more time to compile data and cleanup the post.

[Dihlyte]

Further testing continues to prove Treasure Hunter procs are visibly and clearly affected by equipment above treasure hunter 8 total (3+5) and the higher the equipment (3+11) and (3+16) proves to proc even higher when above TH14 total.

Further testing shall commence.

Although the results are resoundingly clear thus far, and is not needed for my personal opinion on the matter, as the SE representative already cleared up any confusion I had.

Day 4 shall include a similar test as day 3, but hopefully will produce faster and quicker procs for both TH8 and TH17+ else I might start to rip my hair out at how boring this process has become.

[Gwydion]

Further testing continues to prove Treasure Hunter procs are visibly and clearly affected by equipment above treasure hunter 8 total (3+5) and the higher the equipment (3+11) and (3+16) proves to proc even higher when above TH14 total.

Further testing shall commence.

Although the results are resoundingly clear thus far, and is not needed for my personal opinion on the matter, as the SE representative already cleared up any confusion I had.

Day 4 shall include a similar test as day 3, but hopefully will produce faster and quicker procs for both TH8 and TH17+ else I might start to rip my hair out at how boring this process has become.

Camate's statements seem to indicate that TH proc rate decays as TH mob level increases. Applying more TH in gear, doesn't improve or increase TH proc rate, except that it prevents the decay from occuring. In other words, the currently proposed hypothesis is: Equip TH+1 for ever TH proc that occurs and your TH proc rate will remain at X percentage.

Your testing shouldn't indicate any ease or more frequent TH proc rates, unless we're all misunderstanding Camate's statements.

[Dihlyte]

That is what I initially thought as well, and started using TH14 more than my maximum available (19 now)

But I started feeling like I was not seeing as many drops, and a lower return on TH performance.

So far with my testing (still ongoing) I’m seeing a very obvious difference in TH19 over TH14 more than I do from TH8 to TH14.

I believe there is a more complex formula happening in the background.

As it is said, the value between the enemy and the players level, and then the “decay” on TH equipment might play a role here.

The proc rate can be fixed, as I clearly see that when you proc the first 3 procs quickly, the following tend to proc much slower.

It could be enemy HP based, or it could be something the player is doing/stats such as accuracy, DEX, or possibly even Crit rate, as others seem to feel.

This part is more difficult to test.

My first objective is to determine exactly how TH procs happen with as few variables as possible; then start adding more specific things such as DEX, DA, accuracy, etc.

My next test will be to use as much gear as possible without dealing too much damage, to where the enemy is defeated before proc'ing to TH14 which will be difficult to balance.

Then once I can find that balance, I can start testing other factors.

[Dihlyte]

To further clarify…

TH proc rates could be x% (Fixed)

If you have more haste, you will perform more melee rounds quicker, thus you will proc more quickly, since you’re attacking more quickly.

This is a given.

The proc rate is “fixed” but since you’re attacking quick, you'll proc “faster”

Now if the monster has TH 9 on it, and you’re in TH 8 there is now a “decay."

If you’re in TH19, and the enemy is TH9 there is no decay.

It is also possible there is a “decay” if the value between enemy and the monster is based on a higher TH value.

As has been proven already as TH 14 is harder to proc than TH 9.

The question, is that the case because TH9 is easier to proc, or because the armor has a high TH value. This is the part that isn’t directly clarified by the SE dev.

The decay could be because of the fixed rate, or the lack of TH armor.

The dev did say:

this would reduce the value of equipment with Treasure Hunter+ and also takes away all the hard work some players have put into maximize their Treasure Hunter, we would like to keep it as it is currently.

So this is what had me believe more TH armor is better. So far my testing is proving that more armor does perform better.

[Gwydion]

SE's statement implies there is value in having multiple pieces of equipment with TH+ ....but they don't quanitfy that value. :/

We, the players, are trying to make it tangible...