Elemental Trials - Fire/Light

[Seriha]

The whole "there's still the game day!" angle is just a variant of weather. Again, if you're someone who can only manage maybe 2-3 hours a day, you may only see that specific day once every three days. Now, if we run with that 25 kills a day number, trials that require 200 kills would take 8 of these sessions, roughly 16-24 RL days for that trial alone. I'm sorry, but elemental path weapons aren't THAT good to warrant someone needing months to finish one if they can't reliably catch the weather, day, or get stuck with the ones where weather isn't even an option. We're past the days where everyone's starting at the same time so help for a trial is easy to find. No, now it's basically dumb luck, or if you're really unlucky, people will be killing where you go and not invite you for whatever reason.

As was said, they're imbalanced. If you figure Fire is 1/8 is as common as, say, Earth, then Fire kills either need to be 1/8 the amount or Earth's kills 8x more. This isn't the case, though, so we're left with basically 3 weather patterns being far less frequent than others, seasons or not. And the people who are realizing this imbalance either want a fix or more options like letting SCH weather buffs count for 1 kill regardless of day or as I've suggested before, a sort of portable weather mantelet where anything in range is subjected to that specific weather aura and again count for only 1 kill. One way or the other, they'd still be doing the kills, and if they got lucky with natural weather? Great. None of this, "Sorry, come back next RL week!" crap.

[RAIST]

So...you're saying someone who has less game time per day is more entitled to complete an event that requires setting aside a certain slice of focused effort on a recurring schedule than someone who has more game time per day to focus on that event?

If you add up all the time spent (getting to camp, resting, waiting on pops, etc) and it comes to an average of say 2 minutes a kill--it will still take 2550 minutes to kill 1275 monsters to complete that line under the same setup and condtiions. That is the same amount of gametime spent on those trials, regardless if it is broken down into 3 hours a week, or 12. That is not an issue with the trials themselves, but more a disparity in the players' lives and playing style.

Edit:
Weather bonus was added as a means to help speed things up--most likely specifically to facilitate the begining trials, as they were weather ONLY trials...if you happen to catch it up on the remaining trials it's just a little boost. It wasn't meant to be the be-all-end-all way of doing the rest of them. And fire/light weather is NOT non-existent. I have done several weapons that I used fire weather for and only had to wait on one of them because it was an odd mix of Opo's in fire/wind/thunder/light weather ONLY. I waited a week to get those 10 kills, then ripped through the rest of it, the majority of it via day--after that one trial, if the weather happened to pop, I benefitted from it, but it wasn't something that held me back except that one time. I am on my 28th weapon for myself, and have assisted countless others with theirs simply because I've known the better camps for completing them so they asked for my help. Weather is not the holy grail for completing these things, it is just something that CAN speed them up if you happen to catch it.

[Seriha]

If you add up all the time spent (getting to camp, resting, waiting on pops, etc) and it comes to an average of say 2 minutes a kill--it will still take 2550 minutes to kill 1275 monsters to complete that line under the same setup and condtiions.

Now, let me ask you this, at 42.5 hours per weapon under your numbers, as someone who might have 2-3 hours a day every other day, does the prospect of spending 30-44 days over time toward a single weapon strike you as both productive and entertaining? Especially in a game with so many other odds and ends to chase? That 30-44 also only works if they happen to be on for the specific elemental days for trials where weather simply isn't an option.

See, magian trials are a pretty important part of the game right now. If a player feels so desperately overwhelmed by an endeavor, then they'll be less inclined to undertake it, which can lead to less interest in the game, and eventually a loss of a customer to SE. Brush it off as me making a mountain out of molehill or how that's simply their problem, but keep in mind the MMO genre walks a fine line between entertainment and feeling like a job with crappy pay. When this happens enough, we find ourselves with fewer people to play with, the need and hassle of server merges, and so on. Day/Weather restrictions are just one part of the Magian blah, but still an important branch. Hopefully the hinted adjustments in the coming patch might address some of this, but if not, I still don't think it's an issue to ignore.

[RAIST]

Now, let me ask you this, at 42.5 hours per weapon under your numbers, as someone who might have 2-3 hours a day every other day, does the prospect of spending 30-44 days over time toward a single weapon strike you as both productive and entertaining? Especially in a game with so many other odds and ends to chase? That 30-44 also only works if they happen to be on for the specific elemental days for trials where weather simply isn't an option.

See, magian trials are a pretty important part of the game right now. If a player feels so desperately overwhelmed by an endeavor, then they'll be less inclined to undertake it, which can lead to less interest in the game, and eventually a loss of a customer to SE. Brush it off as me making a mountain out of molehill or how that's simply their problem, but keep in mind the MMO genre walks a fine line between entertainment and feeling like a job with crappy pay. When this happens enough, we find ourselves with fewer people to play with, the need and hassle of server merges, and so on. Day/Weather restrictions are just one part of the Magian blah, but still an important branch. Hopefully the hinted adjustments in the coming patch might address some of this, but if not, I still don't think it's an issue to ignore.

That is a hypothetical worst case secenario sort of thing...assuming you are completely soloing at a slow pace, never getting weather bonus, etc. I seriously doubt someone is going to be in that bad of a jam unless they are complete @$$hats and have alienated every person on their server. I have killed as many as 40 mobs in one game day while watching TV on some trials. Ran the 150 kills by light damage for Carby's staff while watching the Warehouse 13 marathon tonight in about 3 hours--in uly range. Even though that 2550 number is a theoretical example not likely to really happen, still compare it to previous gears like Dynamis, Relic, Mythic...I have heard tales of people taking a whole YEAR just to get ONE piece done, and it wasn't for a lack of effort either. Gotta put it in perspective.

By your own admission, these weapons are very important items that carry a high value and impact to the game. Shouldn't they require some level of serious commitment to complete them? Especially if they are (for some) superceding items that people spent months or even years trying to acquire via older content?

I am on my 8th SMN staff at the moment (again, my 28th magian trial weapon). I did 2 complete SMN staves from start to +2 stage in about a week and a half. Started Ifrit's two weeks ago on Sunday, finished it and ran Titan's through by this past Wednesday. That was 1275 kill points x 2. Granted, there is no weather bonus or day requirement as it is kill by avatar once you get the affinity +1 staff done, but I did this very casually--stopping a lot to help others with stuff, killing NM's and getting seals and such. I even took some nights off for LS events. I did NOT spend 85 hours doing these things... maybe 40 tops including all the running around I had to do.

Ages ago, before all these wonderful level caps and abyssea options were available, I ran Fenrir's staff and my thunder and Ice staves through their top stages at the time with little to no effort. I spent roughly about 4 weeks doing all three of those--at level 90 now I could probably run them all in half that time, or less. I know a player who is still in the middle of helping his wife start up a new business and is hardly on at all during the week, and even on the weekends only gets on mostly at night--and he ran a cure potency staff through in just under 2 weeks. These things just simply are not the time sink you guys are making them out to be (or at least they SHOULDN'T be--perhaps it is time to rethink HOW you guys are doing them).

[Masekase]

You can't compare these to Relic or Mythic these are not the same. If you want to compare it to the abyssean weapons sure. That is not the case with these they are supposed to be the easier to get as they are alot weaker.

The point is the fire and light path should be no harder than the other elements.

[RAIST]

Not comparing these to the weapons themselves, comparing them to the importance of the weapon for their time and the process to obtain them. They both were considered top tier, end-game items that were higly coveted by those who went after them when they were introduced. Neither should simply be given to the players--they required a higher level of dedication and patience to obtain.

Fire and light paths are no harder than earth, wind, ice, water, thunder, or dark. They may prove more time consuming at certain stages, but by no means harder to the point that they create a gross imbalance by design. EVERY weapon has at least one stage where it is an absolute grind to complete--whether it is physical, WS, or elemental. If it is a matter of hitting slimes only in weather on the dark side of the path then the issue is timing it right while the right weather is in effect in the mire or GC in the past, or setting up a level synch to catch the weather elsewhere. If it is a matter of Diremites or vermin in wind day/weather and the weather is not in season, then you need to do them by day--where you chooose to do them by day will determine just how long it takes to complete that leg. Or, they could simply put it off until the weather is in season and come back later--that is a CHOICE the player makes that causes them to delay the objective.

Again...that is not a factor of difficulty to complete them (beating down EP mobs or one-shotting gob pets is by no means difficult)--it is a TIME issue and nothing else.

A player that can only play 1 hour a day has low probablility to hit ANYTHING that is timed or random in the game--that includes both day or weather. Such a player would need to be even more mindful of when things are likely to be coming up so they could plan their time for the efficiency factor. These people are less likely to be getting into many NM runs for AF3, less likely to get there zone wins done, etc. without some serious planning and help from others, requiring a high level of dedication to the task in question. The same would apply to the dedication for completing ANY magian weapon--whether it is an elemental line, a physical line, or a WS line...less game time per day translates to more RL days to complete, plain and simple.

This all is more an issue with the player's personal life and playing style as a whole and not necessarily the weather frequency itself. If they have less time in game per day, than it simply will take them more days to do anything in the game--whether it is completing mission tracks, acguiring quested/BCNM/NM items, breaking a latent, or simply leveling a job up. The player OPTING to not kill by day and instead hunting for weather is less an issue with the game's design, but more an issue with that player's personal choice in the matter. Just like one choosing to quest for seals or solo NM's (well, solo ANYTHING for that matter) instead of teaming up to hunt the seals from NM's causes them to take longer to accomplish that goal. It is the player's chosen method creating the problem, not the game design itself.

[Atomic_Skull]

Why wait around for weather to do fire path weapons? Just go to abyssea get pumped up with atmas and slaughter mobs for 1 hour on Firesday. I did 180 manticores on DRG/SAM in one hour that way solo. With 2 or 3 people you could complete the trial in one game day.

[thefinalrune]

As much as I don't mind planning out my kill cycles for my trials, I'm disappointed to see no mention in the update notes about any changes to the weather patterns for fire and light.