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  1. #1
    Player
    Join Date
    May 2024
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    81

    Too much of XI is needlesly complicatated.

    There is far too much needless complexity in FFXI in the later endgame content.

    It's really obvious that whoever was in charge of designing the endgame content for XI that was released in the past 5-6 years really loves being a seriously hardcore nerd, and they love making it as incredibly complicated as they possibly could.

    For a new player, trying to wrap their mind around all the complexity of obtaining and upgrading Ody gear, or Sortie or upgrading Dyna D it's laughable.

    If there isn't going to be new content, then work on simplifying the processes with what you have so more people can engage with it.

    The process for getting r30 Ody gear alone is laughable, the amount of hoops you have to jump through, the requirements and unlocks etc is unmatched in any game I can think about. It's so bad that most people are just not going to engage with it at all, cause the mountain you have to climb to just engage with the grind is far too much. So you're going to lose players in the mid tier who cap out on the stuff they were doing, and that won't engage with this newer complicated content.

    When most of the devs from XI moved over to XIV last year I can imagine the culture shock of being told this kind of content design isn't acceptable anywhere was mind blowing.

    I cringe when I try to explain XI endgame beyond Ambuscade to a new player, it's designed by people who are very smart but have no understanding of creating things in a way that is palatable for normal people. I know many XI players take pride in it being the way it is (and many wiki writers gush over it endlessly, cause complexity is porn to them), but for new players coming from XIV it's just laughably stupid.
    (4)
    Last edited by radar; 10-09-2024 at 11:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Player Dihlyte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    147
    Character
    Emmih
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Honestly, this is why I love FFXI now.

    When I want to play a simple game, and turn off my brain, I go play FFXIV.

    Which is why I haven’t touched FFXIV at all in the last 2 years, and why I’m neck deep in FFXI.

    I don’t mean to undermine you, but honestly once FFXI clicks, it’s the most satisfying game I’ve ever played.
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player Rinuko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    117
    Character
    Sevu
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    That's the appeal with the game imo. Please don't simplify and dumb it down.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player Zenion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    323
    Character
    Zenion
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    I don't see how Odyssey or Dynamis-Divergence gear is complicated at all. Fight this boss to unlock the gear, fight it more to upgrade it, the NPC in charge straight up tells you "keep fighting these things." Enter a zone to unlock a piece, defeat the boss or a lot of weaker mobs to unlock it more, then talk to the relevant NPC and you can be given the full shopping list including clearly job and slot specific items so you can't accidentally try to trade in the wrong ones.

    Sortie though, that was downright cryptic, and while we got through it I don't think that's what content should be like. There should have been clues, maybe a message when doing the thing that makes basement mid-bosses drop their chest, message when succeeding or failing at the challenges for things like kill with the right kind of attack or go through the doors in the right order. Luckily we have enough amateur detectives in the player base that we got it figured out, but I can see that being impossible to solve without access to community resources.
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player
    Join Date
    May 2024
    Posts
    81
    If you create a type of endgame, and almost everyone wearing the gear is stuck at r0 because upgrading it is so complicated and difficult, you failed at game design. Everyone you check in Ody gear should have some amount of upgrades on it, and most don't. Even if most never get it to r30, everyone should be working on it.

    It's ok to have content most can't do when a game is getting updates or is new, but if you stop updates and people still can't engage with the grind, you're gatekeeping the grind that is designed to keep them paying to play the game.

    This is not like FF14 where people can stand around role playing or dancing, the grind is what XI is all about.

    It's imperative that they allow everyone who has this gear to slowly be able to work on grinding it out to cap, without jumping though sky high hoops they obviously are not engaging with. If not, people are going to leave due to having nothing to grind and nothing else to look forward to after it.

    Ambuscade is incredibly well designed grind content, and is open to everyone in a way Ody is not.
    (4)

  6. #6
    Player Zenion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    323
    Character
    Zenion
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    I struggle to call Ambuscade "well designed" when many months saddle you with some gimmick that makes the fight either unfairly difficult (sahagins) or mind-numbingly tedious (iron giants, moogles). That said though, it was the entry-level event, the place where you'd get your first solid ilvl119 gear, so if it's not open to everyone there's a real problem. Odyssey is the event for the top-shelf gear, it's meant for people who have nearly completed their gear progression and are built to tear through enemies; if it's difficult for new players, perhaps that's an indication that it's not for new players.

    That said, it's still possible to at least attempt bosses, it's just so painfully slow that nobody would ever do it for long enough to achieve it. It's not a difficulty issue so much as a poor ratio of reward to effort. Changing absolutely nothing else, but giving players 4x segments for hall B solo, maybe 3x for duo or trio, and 2x for a party of four, would make the event rewarding enough that players might actually try it without a super endgame party.

    Sortie has the same problem, the rewards just aren't there if you're not running with decked damage dealers and support in a full party of six, so you have your haves building prime weapons and your have-nots getting by with reforged empyrean +2 because 70000 gallimaufry is too much to imagine spending on a piece of armor.
    (4)

  7. #7
    Player Rinuko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    117
    Character
    Sevu
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by radar View Post
    If you create a type of endgame, and almost everyone wearing the gear is stuck at r0 because upgrading it is so complicated and difficult, you failed at game design. Everyone you check in Ody gear should have some amount of upgrades on it, and most don't. Even if most never get it to r30, everyone should be working on it.
    The problem I see, is most people either buy mercs/rmt or have friends kill v0 bosses to unlock it then never touch it again.
    I don't think it's the system's fault but people are lazy and fine with just unlocking the pieces.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenion View Post
    Sortie has the same problem, the rewards just aren't there if you're not running with decked damage dealers and support in a full party of six, so you have your haves building prime weapons and your have-nots getting by with reforged empyrean +2 because 70000 gallimaufry is too much to imagine spending on a piece of armor.

    Agree. I haven't found a dedicated group to run Sortie, and I also came in late when it comes to this content.
    I currently casually solo it but my character isn't fully decked out and I get lost in there, lol. I can't even do 10k per run so there is several runs just to unlock 1 +2 slot. Which is fine I suppose, it's a grind after all.
    (1)
    Last edited by Rinuko; 10-10-2024 at 06:50 PM.

  8. #8
    Player Dragoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    1,929
    Character
    Dragoy
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    RNG Lv 99
    Somehow I don't remember getting a set for one job to +3 via Sortie, solo (samurai), being that big of a grind... though it probably was.

    I'd get around 8k Gallimaufry per run at most.

    With a newer adventurer in mind, I believe it is doable, like with Ambuscade equipment, and I think getting the Empyrean equipment +1 or +2 first would be more source for a confusion there.

    I also defeated some of the Odyssey bosses solo (samurai), but don't actually remember how many of them. Not enough for any relevant equipment to be available in any case.
    I did not continue on that yet because I needed more segments, which is a bit slow to get alone, and I haven't really felt like hunting for those.

    As said, though, I, too, don't think these are for new people to tackle in the first place, although in many ways I find the Empyrean equipment to be the easiest best things to get now, since there is no need for expensive items or tough bosses, just a bunch of time and luck with treasure boxes.

    Compared to Artifact and Relic upgrades at least it, Empyrean sure is the most doable for a solo or few adventurers.

    Odyssey I don't have much to say about, since I did it so little, but that one definitely is a bit more complicated (to some extent, it is fun to see how far I can get alone in that... might even gear up some more jobs just for it... but I digress).
    (2)
    ...or so the legend says.


  9. #9
    Player Rinuko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    117
    Character
    Sevu
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    What is generally a good strat for solo Gallimaufry? I've just been running back and forth getting chests and try kill the lesser NM's. I haven't tried to solo the area NM's yet (solo that is).
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player Dragoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    1,929
    Character
    Dragoy
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    RNG Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rinuko View Post
    What is generally a good strat for solo Gallimaufry? I've just been running back and forth getting chests and try kill the lesser NM's. I haven't tried to solo the area NM's yet (solo that is).
    No idea about good, but I tend to go Ghatjot (only area boss I can solo I think, since the others have so wide area attacks that alter egos kind of go down real quick), then the smaller NMs in the areas (depending on positioning of Deletemeeerious), the easy chests in F and G for the chance for rocks if needed, and maybe end with the Esurient Flans which also give kind of OK examapopoints on the side. Probably not good for maximum Gallimaufry but I kind of like the side "bonus" on that.
    (2)
    ...or so the legend says.


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