Paladin: Possibilities

[Akujima]

As for PLD not being a DD, I completely agree. I did not level Paladin to be a DD, I leveled it to be able to protect people from damage by taking it on myself. That is why I have Samurai and Dragoon to DD with.

I totally agree with this 1000%

We need to keep the characteristics of jobs intact. Less of this whining about "Why can't my BRD melee!?" that only blurs the line between jobs, making them all bland and tasteless.

[Zyeriis]

Modifications #4

1) Cover

-1E) Reverse Enmity Loss while covering some one
This idea is likely the simplest so far, regarding cover. While you are covering some one with cover in it's current form, you are essentially getting in the enemy's way. Attacks you take are in technicality directed at the person behind you, not you. Thus, Cover should be adjusted to lower the enmity of the person you are protecting whilst at the same time, increasing your enmity because you are aggravating the enemy by blocking it from it's intended target. You shouldn't lose enmity while covering some one else basically (from damage or otherwise).

3) Enmity

-3A) Raise it or Remove it for PLD specifically

--3a) Slight raise to enmity (Paladin specific)
This is a clarification addition to the enmity cap paladin-specific raise. Some might argue that raising the enmity cap for Paladin only is game breaking and then Paladin would be able to hold hate 100% of the time. This is simply not true depending on the degree of the increase. Increasing the cap enough that Paladin would be able to take and hold hate with a hate grabbing ability (provoke, flash, animating flourish) while not increasing it so much that a few hits wouldn't drop the Paladin's enmity back down below the enmity cap of other jobs wouldn't upset the "difficulty" of holding hate. It would merely allow Paladin to have a slight edge in enmity/hate, making them more viable in this position while blood tanking, which is their intended role.

--3b) Raise the enmity cap across the board, significantly
People can and do argue that any DD job can out enmity-gain a Paladin. This is a possibility (not necessarily the truth). While this is a problem, which there are solutions for in and of itself (see 3B: Paladin Provoke Style Ability and Enmity Control). That is a separate problem, even though it does affect enmity in it's current state. Raising the enmity cap in general would allow for Paladin (with greater enmity gaining capabilities) to prolong how long it can hold hate. Raising the enmity cap would prolong the time it takes to reach the enmity cap. If Paladin can gain enmity faster through job abilities and spells than DDs spamming damage, then Paladin would be able to hold hate for longer before the enmity cap is reached.

Granted this would not solve the issue of what would occur when the DDs catch up because the PLD is stuck at the cap but, this solution is about prolonging this eventuality, not getting rid of it. Raising the enmity cap may also cause some type of disturbance mage-side because, let's face it, no one can gain enmity better than a careless mage. However, with job traits like Tranquil Heart appearing on the horizon for Red Mage, and White Mages smart enough to know that enmity - gear is brilliant, this may be less of a problem then I (or anyone else) make it out to be.

5) Shields

-5B) Magic Deflection
Disclaimer: This is potential the most potentially over-powered idea I've come up with thus far. This idea will likely spark discussion, some bad, some good. Try to keep it constructive and on-topic.

Magic evasion. This term denotes "resisting" a magic spell such as fire, reducing it's damage but not annulling its damage. "1 of Player's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears" denotes a player annulling an attack (magic or physical) completely by sacrificing a magical buff and is referred to as "Blink tanking". "Blink tanking" has become extremely popular these days in Abyssea. While not the only reason that Paladin has been left in the dust, it is still one of the big ones.

So, how can Paladin overcome this clear disadvantage? Some will say stack MDB and MDT- gear. While right, it is not always practical to do so, is it? Paladin's will still take damage to some extent (perhaps not even that much less) and will still lose enmity. Enmity, the greatest need of a tank (can't tank if the mob isn't interested in you anymore). Then come people who claim that Paladin needs more DD capabilities to hold that enmity. There is a conflict here. If they give Paladin more DD capabilities then they'll be expected to use DD gear primarily. Where goes that MDB and MDT- gear? Into a macro that you use while the enemy is casting? Yes, that could work, some times but the Paladin would still take damage and still lose enmity.

What does that leave us with? A relatively endless cycle of inevitably that is enmity loss (first because we still take damage from single target magic spells and second because if we switch between melee to MDB gear when it's casting, we're no longer gaining as much enmity to keep up while subsequently losing enmity when we get hit with the spell and take damage anyway).

I am aware, that thus far I haven't actually offered the solution. I needed to affirm the train of thought this idea came from (or at least to try). In any case, the idea here is to add another sub-proc to shield procs against physical attacks. Add a proc against single target magic attacks. Using the shield to "deflect" incoming magic at random (more random than a normal shield proc but not overly random as to make it useless). This does not replace utsusemi tanking as it is not a guaranteed success. However, being able to deflect potential enmity-losing, death-inducing damage with a Paladin's signature shield would be a welcomed addition to a relatively forgotten job.

[Zyeriis]

No one has any input on the later entries to the list?

[Akujima]

No one has any input on the later entries to the list?

PLD was one of the most loved/wanted/needed jobs Pre-Abyssea.

The real thing SE needs to look at before implementing major upgrades to combat, jobs, etc, is how the playerbase is going to react. Unfortunately for FFXI, alot of the playerbase just wants to do things "quickly and efficiently" all the time, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be efficient. But what SE failed to realize, is the characteristics of certain jobs, and how they work in relation to one another.

Without realizing these characteristics, they'll continue to create an imbalance between the jobs. Jobs will be left out by players if there is no "NEED" for them anymore. Melee can take hits easily now, very easily. There's no fear of being KO'd anymore if the Enemy/Boss takes a few swings at you.

PLD is a tank, and should always be a tank. As far as how to fix PLD, you have some great idea's. But I think the general issue on the concept of "Tanking" needs to be addressed.

[Greatguardian]

PLD was one of the most loved/wanted/needed jobs Pre-Abyssea.

Only among low/mid-tier linkshells and players who generally did not know better. This has not been the case in the Endgame scene for the better part of half a decade now (2007-ish?). Half a dozen jobs all tanked better than Paladin before Abyssea, and still tank better than Paladin now.

The real thing SE needs to look at before implementing major upgrades to combat, jobs, etc, is how the playerbase is going to react. Unfortunately for FFXI, alot of the playerbase just wants to do things "quickly and efficiently" all the time, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be efficient. But what SE failed to realize, is the characteristics of certain jobs, and how they work in relation to one another.

Without realizing these characteristics, they'll continue to create an imbalance between the jobs. Jobs will be left out by players if there is no "NEED" for them anymore. Melee can take hits easily now, very easily. There's no fear of being KO'd anymore if the Enemy/Boss takes a few swings at you.

Melee could always take hits. Like, seriously, this has never been a problem for melees. The only reason DD jobs got a bad rap for "Dying easily" is because most DDs sucked and didn't carry PDT/MDT sets. A Monk with 40 Def and -50% PDT in gear is going to take way less damage than a "Typical/Classic" Paladin in 600 Defense and 0 PDT.

PLD is a tank, and should always be a tank. As far as how to fix PLD, you have some great idea's. But I think the general issue on the concept of "Tanking" needs to be addressed.

Paladin is a sword wielding Melee job with access to White Magic, Shield bonuses, and some Defensive traits/JA. Whether or not that equates to being a tank is up to the players. As it stands, that particular combination is lackluster at best. Tanks do much better avoiding hits entirely than they would "Taking them for less damage". I had to put less damage in quotes because Paladin really doesn't take less damage than anyone else without an Ochain.

[Akujima]

Paladin is a sword wielding Melee job with access to White Magic, Shield bonuses, and some Defensive traits/JA. Whether or not that equates to being a tank is up to the players.

So let's talk about this.

You want everything to be entirely left up to the players? So what is the challenge and fun, in running through a maze that you built yourself? You're going to know every angle, every correct turn and will be near impossible to get lost. Why? Because YOU built it.

The quote above is kind of like saying "Oh WHM is a club wielding job, that has access to White Magic, Club Skills and lots of MP. Whether or not that equates to being a healer is up to the players"

Lol...

[Greatguardian]

So let's talk about this.

Okay.

You want everything to be entirely left up to the players?

Until it is against the ToS to play jobs any way the players want, this will always be the case.

So what is the challenge and fun, in running through a maze that you built yourself? You're going to know every angle, every correct turn and will be near impossible to get lost. Why? Because YOU built it.

No. This is an incorrect analogy. The Developers build the maze. The Players then determine the fastest/best/most efficient course throughout the maze. When Route A takes twice as much time and energy to traverse as Route B, Route A will likely be discarded in favor of Route B.

The quote above is kind of like saying "Oh WHM is a club wielding job, that has access to White Magic, Club Skills and lots of MP. Whether or not that equates to being a healer is up to the players"

Lol...

White Mage doesn't have to be a healer. It is simply well equipped to be a healer. Whether or not it is efficient for White Mage to be a healer is left to the determination of the player base.

[Akujima]

No. This is an incorrect analogy. The Developers build the maze. The Players then determine the fastest/best/most efficient course throughout the maze. When Route A takes twice as much time and energy to traverse as Route B, Route A will likely be discarded in favor of Route B.

White Mage doesn't have to be a healer. It is simply well equipped to be a healer. Whether or not it is efficient for White Mage to be a healer is left to the determination of the player base.

You're assuming that there is 2 correct ways to exit the maze. When in reality, all routes lead to a dead-end except 1. All Routes except Route 1 are incorrect.


As far as leaving how the job is played to the player base... This is exactly the reason why tons of jobs get excluded and are labeled as "Crap".


I will give you one thing GG. You are quite good in twisting others words and concepts, in order for people to sympathize with your point of view. Try harder next time.

[Greatguardian]

You're assuming that there is 2 correct ways to exit the maze. When in reality, all routes lead to a dead-end except one. All Routes except Route A are incorrect.


As far as leaving how the job is played to the player base... This is exactly the reason why tons of jobs get excluded and are labeled as "Crap".


I will give you one thing GG. You are quite good in twisting others words and concepts, in order for others to sympathize with your point of view. Try harder next time.

I never assumed there were two routes. Would you rather I had included 3 routes in my expository? 4? There are an infinite number of routes in any given maze when the player is free to move in all four directions. Players will still find the fastest/most efficient route. Players can also eliminate a near infinite amount of routes via common sense. It would not be prudent to go forward and then immediately take a step backwards. Nor would it be at all smart to repeat the above process multiple times. I figured that was common sense.

As for twisting words, kindly refrain from projecting your angst onto me. I have not twisted anything. I have taken your words at face value. Do not blame me if you find yourself unable to properly convey what it is you are trying to say.

[Akujima]

PLD was one of the most loved/wanted/needed jobs Pre-Abyssea.

Only among low/mid-tier linkshells and players who generally did not know better.

Do not blame me if you find yourself unable to properly convey what it is you are trying to say.

Do not tell me "You don't know any better" if you can't figure out what it is I'm trying to say in the first place: The general issue on the "Concept" of Tanking needs to be addressed.

Concept. Concept. Concept. Do you understand what the word means? Because I clearly remember having to explain myself over and over again in "A Ninja without Throwing".