Paladin: Possibilities

[Byrth]

Yeah. When I talk about Paladin being the king of damage reduction, I'm referring to O.chain. It turns Paladin into a small god of damage reduction.

The fSTR calculations aren't broken. They're a concession to 1H weapon users and a bandaid that inhibits overcamping at low levels and helps Paladins tank Mandragoras in Kampf gear. Your insistence that something is wrong with them make me think you don't understand how they work, so here goes:
(Your STR - Target's VIT)/4 + 4 ~= fSTR, at high STR values relative to VIT.
fSTR caps at (Weapon Rank + 8), where Weapon Rank = Floor(Weapon Damage/9)
(Weapon Damage + fSTR) = Base damage

So for low damage weapon users (like Paladin), Joyeuse +20 STR (35 ~+6 Damage = 17%) is a much larger increase in damage than for a Warrior with Perdu Voulge +20 STR (96+~6 damage = ~+6%).

The opposite is true when a Paladin is tanking a monster. High VIT (- base damage) is good against monsters with low starting base damage that hit frequently (like Mandragoras). VIT doesn't matter so much against things with high base damage (like almost everything after level 60).


I definitely agree that this mechanic doesn't have a large impact on endgame, but the obvious alternatives I see are:
1) Make negative monster -> player fSTR subtract damage. This could be done Phalanx-style, or using the current -Base damage tyle.
2) Make negative monster -> player fSTR manifest as percent decrease in damage taken, like PDT but not affected by the cap.

Pick whichever you like, adjust it however you like, and you'll probably be more durable (and so would everyone else) but you haven't changed Paladin's situation at all.

This is not a new problem in the least, and none of the damage-taken mechanisms have changed. If there weren't level 90 monsters when we were 75 (the easy ones, like Genbu) then we wouldn't have had such a hard time DDing them. If you'd lowered the monsters between level 85-95 down to level ~82, I doubt that Paladin would ever have become popular. Now we fight monsters that are realistically probably ~5-7 levels above us. How quickly would a level 82 Tiamat have died to a few SAMs?

The problem is not in the job, it's in the lack of massive level-correction (and thus damage-resistant) monsters. I sure don't miss the old days, but I'm sorry you guys lost your house.

[Zyeriis]

@Byrth
I definently see the point in the HNM example you gave as to their level vs our levels. I will add something along those lines in my next modifications post.

As for the starting point about how fSTR is a concession to 1H, the examples you gave aren't really relevant anymore as they mostly apply to pre-abyssea exping (because abyssea made standard exp parties not worth the trouble). I know you admitted that it doesn't have a big impact on endgame, which is generally what this thread is about: PLD once it is 90+.

In any case, the problem with DDs being able to survive better (or as well as) than Paladin. Some people want a DD buff to PLD, some people want something different. Reworking the formulas would balance things out a bit more wouldn't it? I'm not just talking defensive wise here either. Reworking fSTR formulas would benefit PLD as well, by bringing DDs down a bit, and moving PLD up a bit. DDs would focus more on offensive gear full-time because of the adjustment (not that they don't already do that) while PLD would be able to focus more on VIT and other things if they felt inclined to do so. I guess it wouldn't make a huge difference but it would bridge the gap at least a little bit more, if you understand what I'm trying to say that is. Some might call that a DD nerf, while half-true, it would also be boosting something else in the process (mob toughness, player toughness while lowering player attack [slightly] and damage output thus resulting in lower enmity rate, making it slightly more difficult to continuously cap CE and tank). It would cause a ripple effect. Whether it would be good enough, too good, or not good at all, I can't really say.

[Greatguardian]

Adjusting fundamental mechanics formulas is like changing the rules of Monopoly 5 hours into the game because you don't think collecting $200 every time you pass go is enough for people who don't have Boardwalk and Park Place.

[Byrth]

In any case, the problem with DDs being able to survive better (or as well as) than Paladin. Some people want a DD buff to PLD, some people want something different. Reworking the formulas would balance things out a bit more wouldn't it? I'm not just talking defensive wise here either. Reworking fSTR formulas would benefit PLD as well, by bringing DDs down a bit, and moving PLD up a bit. DDs would focus more on offensive gear full-time because of the adjustment (not that they don't already do that) while PLD would be able to focus more on VIT and other things if they felt inclined to do so. I guess it wouldn't make a huge difference but it would bridge the gap at least a little bit more, if you understand what I'm trying to say that is. Some might call that a DD nerf, while half-true, it would also be boosting something else in the process (mob toughness, player toughness while lowering player attack [slightly] and damage output thus resulting in lower enmity rate, making it slightly more difficult to continuously cap CE and tank). It would cause a ripple effect. Whether it would be good enough, too good, or not good at all, I can't really say.

You haven't been reading the update notes if you think they're going to nerf DDs at this point. If you're going to campaign for fSTR changes, campaign to make the penalties of negative fSTR more severe. This will (unfortunately) hurt your own damage pretty badly (see my example, imagine a negative number instead of positive), but it will give you the damage reduction with VIT that you seem to be looking for.

[TybudX]

Changing fSTR wouldn't help PLD at all, really, since their swords have relatively high base damage. Jobs with lower base damage, such as THF and DNC, would be given more wiggle room to optimize DD gear. PLD really couldn't do jack.

[Zyeriis]

Adjusting fundamental mechanics formulas is like changing the rules of Monopoly 5 hours into the game because you don't think collecting $200 every time you pass go is enough for people who don't have Boardwalk and Park Place.

They've certainly never adjusted "fundamental" mechanics before. Critical hits aren't being altered to be affected by VIT at all (even if it's pretty pointless). We didn't used to have elemental resistance increases across the board just from leveling up either, right? The "fundamental" mechanic of losing exp upon death (level 1-30) isn't being removed either. We didn't have to "set" our mog houses before using rent-a-rooms either.

All you're saying is "they shouldn't update/fix/balance things". Trolling, you should try harder, that post wasn't very good.

[Akujima]

Last I checked, you determined a game's genre based on what it is; you don't determine what it is based on the game's genre.

If it is so disturbing to call FFXI an MMORPG, call it something else. Or just call it FFXI. I thought you were the one telling me to think outside the box in your Shuriken thread. Now you want FFXI to conform to the box or else? Classy.

Finally, if I piss you off so much, you're welcome to vent about me on other sites where you're free to call me a doo doo head without fear of moderator reprisal. Link me for lulz please.

All or most of your posts just consist of a simple formula: You're wrong. This is how you are wrong. I'm right. This is how I'm right. Completely leaving out the point or subject matter the OP was trying to portray.

Games are never going to become real life, so there's a limit to how far it's possible to think outside of that. Games in themselves are "Boxes", but many who get too into the game mechanics, have made a "Box within a Box" and can't creatively think outside their own viewpoint, in order to improve those mechanics which have failed somehow.

So yea, whatever man. Still doesn't change the fact that most of your posts don't contribute anything. Just continuing to pick at peoples faults and point out their inconsistencies, doesn't make you a savior to the developers the way you think it does. And if your intention is to discourage creative thinkers, instigate people and instill hopelessness towards their ideas, then you've succeeded. Because I'm tired of this forum and all it's negativity, so I'll leave it up to you to run things the way you want. I'd rather be doing other things, than wasting my time in a heated battle with everyone trying to get their point across.

Adios.

[Greatguardian]

They've certainly never adjusted "fundamental" mechanics before. Critical hits aren't being altered to be affected by VIT at all (even if it's pretty pointless). We didn't used to have elemental resistance increases across the board just from leveling up either, right? The "fundamental" mechanic of losing exp upon death (level 1-30) isn't being removed either. We didn't have to "set" our mog houses before using rent-a-rooms either.

All you're saying is "they shouldn't update/fix/balance things". Trolling, you should try harder, that post wasn't very good.

If you can't tell the difference between adjusting fStr and cRatio/pDif calculations and adjusting the EXP loss curve then I just don't know what else to tell you.

Oh, and I'm not trolling. I'm simply putting up with your repeated personal attacks without retaliating or reporting you like a champ. Does that really hurt your feelings so much? You seem pretty mad.

Edit: Nvm, he's way more mad.

[Zyeriis]

If you can't tell the difference between adjusting fStr and cRatio/pDif calculations and adjusting the EXP loss curve then I just don't know what else to tell you.

Oh, and I'm not trolling. I'm simply putting up with your repeated personal attacks without retaliating or reporting you like a champ. Does that really hurt your feelings so much? You seem pretty mad.

Edit: Nvm, he's way more mad.

I said try harder, not resort to classic trolling techniques such as: "nah, umad despite showing no signs of it". Go ahead and report me for never (as far as I can remember) calling you a name or acting out "personal attacks" unlike what you've been doing. You know, other than calling you arrogant and a troll in my most recent post. Seriously, feel free, if you can actually find an instance of your feelings getting hurt by something I said, or try harder. In the meantime, I'll wait for you to learn how to be constructive (doesn't seem likely) and actually post something that has some merit (then maybe you'd get an actual response, because there would be an actual topic being discussed that doesn't coincide with your ego).

[Byrth]

I'll post the same idea again: Add some level 110 monsters.