Paladin: Possibilities

[Byrth]

I stopped replying to this thread because you repetitively post ideas that have a 0% chance of ever being implemented, some of which aren't even ideas. But there's a patch, so you get my input on your 5th Modifications:

Point 6:
First off, you don't have a specific suggestion or show any understanding of how cRatio and fSTR work. As far as I know from reading your post, you've just regurgitated something you heard in another thread. The equations aren't "broken," they're working exactly as intended. All the patches, Abyssea, etc. haven't really changed the monster -> player damage mechanics at all.
Secondly, they can't rework cRatio in the way you'd probably like, because any job could sub BLU and use Cocoon. You know what other job gets a lot of VIT gear? White Mage. Monk. etc.
Finally, reducing damage taken is the least of your worries on Paladin. Right now Paladin/Ninja is by far the best at reducing physical damage barring, perhaps, a Fan Dance using Dancer with capped Evasion. Any change to damage mechanics that you make is going to necessarily help other jobs more than Paladin and make the job less desirable.

Point 2a - You call it a stupid gimmick yourself, and you're right.

Point 2B - You want your paladins to sub White Mage, which isn't exactly a bad choice if you're forced to bring them to Abyssea. Again, not really a fix to the job. A "supporting role" Paladin might as well be on a mage job.


Paladin's biggest "problem," at least before the most recent patch, is that no monsters exist (excluding PW) that are hard enough to justify sacrificing a DD slot to bring a Paladin. If you want to blame something for this, blame fixed hate cures (WHM) and Abyssites of Merit.

All the other things, inability to generate CE, slower attack speed than other 1H DDs, crappy WS selection, etc. is secondary to this primary problem. You want to "fix" Paladin? Ask for harder content.

[Akujima]

I stopped replying to this thread because you repetitively post ideas that have a 0% chance of ever being implemented, some of which aren't even ideas...

...You want to "fix" Paladin? Ask for harder content.

At least the guy is trying to be positive and come up with solutions to a job that is considered "invalid" by many.

Melee's crying about not being able to "Tank" tipped the game out of balance. Next thing you know, they'll complain about not being able to cure themselves enough, and ask that /DNC get a boost so they don't have to RELY on cures from anyone else.

Pretty soon we'll see everyone running around as SAM/DNC, MNK/DNC and NIN/DNC because Melee will be able to TANK, DO DAMAGE AND HEAL effectively. Is that what you want? To be a God?

And on your last note: Yes they should give us more difficult content.

[Zyeriis]

I stopped replying to this thread because you repetitively post ideas that have a 0% chance of ever being implemented, some of which aren't even ideas. But there's a patch, so you get my input on your 5th Modifications:

Point 6:
First off, you don't have a specific suggestion or show any understanding of how cRatio and fSTR work. As far as I know from reading your post, you've just regurgitated something you heard in another thread. The equations aren't "broken," they're working exactly as intended. All the patches, Abyssea, etc. haven't really changed the monster -> player damage mechanics at all.
Secondly, they can't rework cRatio in the way you'd probably like, because any job could sub BLU and use Cocoon. You know what other job gets a lot of VIT gear? White Mage. Monk. etc.
Finally, reducing damage taken is the least of your worries on Paladin. Right now Paladin/Ninja is by far the best at reducing physical damage barring, perhaps, a Fan Dance using Dancer with capped Evasion. Any change to damage mechanics that you make is going to necessarily help other jobs more than Paladin and make the job less desirable.

Point 2a - You call it a stupid gimmick yourself, and you're right.

Point 2B - You want your paladins to sub White Mage, which isn't exactly a bad choice if you're forced to bring them to Abyssea. Again, not really a fix to the job. A "supporting role" Paladin might as well be on a mage job.


Paladin's biggest "problem," at least before the most recent patch, is that no monsters exist (excluding PW) that are hard enough to justify sacrificing a DD slot to bring a Paladin. If you want to blame something for this, blame fixed hate cures (WHM) and Abyssites of Merit.

All the other things, inability to generate CE, slower attack speed than other 1H DDs, crappy WS selection, etc. is secondary to this primary problem. You want to "fix" Paladin? Ask for harder content.

I think this post is a prime example of how no one agrees on what is wrong with paladin. "0% chance of being implemented" is an opinion, not a stating of fact. I think you misunderstand the purpose of this thread, and the way I try to make it differ from past threads. In that, I am merely listing possibilities and that I am fully aware that perhaps not all of said possibilities have a high probability but it's not 0% probability.

I've got a better question: How is increasing versatility detrimental to the job as it stands? I want something added, something that has potential to make Paladin more useful. Each post is made with the mindset of edging Paladin toward being "fixed" not singular ideas to instantly "fix" paladin. One giant update to paladin (or any job for that matter) is more prone to making that job over powered and thus requiring further adjustments to other jobs. I wish for an end to this cycle, I want equality. Is there really a reason to be against this?

As for not having a specific suggestion on 6A, you're right, I did that on purpose though. The suggestion is to rework the system, I merely gave no specifics as to how it should be scaled. Was it wrong of me to not do so? I don't really think it was, as it gives other people something to talk about and work out.

As for the fact that other jobs also have the VIT/defense gear and /blu that paladin also has access to. This is true (said it was a fact). However, the /blu argument is poor because then /blu would be the only viable sub, which I doubt people would take to. As for the VIT/defense gear, this is another reason why I did not give specifics to my "rework Vit/defense vs. Str/attack" portion of modifications #5. I understood the complexity of the situation, which returns me to my first point of this thread: everyone has different opinions on the matter.

People will argue that DDs are just as good at damage mitigation, then some one else will argue they're not as good. These things play more into personal experience rather than fact. It's the same as me saying that Monk sucks (in general) because of all the bad experiences I've had in the past with them. Was Monk as a job at fault? No, it was the player. I don't deny that Paladin is the best at reducing physical damage (I'd likely agree with you) but that doesn't change the view of other player's who have had bad experiences due to bad players. Adding and adjusting things does that.

[Leonatos]

Now that DD's can safely deal damage with capped enmity and survive enimty is definintely a problem. Pld's are just too slow and you sacrifice to much damage by bringing them when you do not have too. That said here is my Enmity fix.


Proposed Enmity fix #1: New Job Ability
The Knight's Wail
Instant Stun effect reseting hate for all other party/allaince members within A0E say 10' (excluding the PLD's hate)
Recast timer 2:00

You could even make it tiered to improve as you lvl. Say for instance lvl 1 pld would Call of the Squire which have like 10 minute recast timer and minor enmity reduction instead of cancellation of a single target and no stun effect. then have it evolve alittle every 10 to 15 lvl's or so.

[Greatguardian]

Now that DD's can safely deal damage with capped enmity and survive is definintely a problem

They've been able to do that for ... years.

[Leonatos]

They've been able to do that for ... years.

Thank you for being so constructive instead of just trolling on a word play.

[Greatguardian]

Thank you for being so constructive instead of just trolling on a word play.

I'm not trolling and it's not word play. DD jobs being able to survive while maintaining capped Enmity and dealing damage is nothing new and has been happening for years. I've seen people tank Khimaira on Corsair =/. It's not hard for anyone to stay alive against an NM, and if the Devs were to make it harder, Paladins would simply suffer too since they're not really much better at staying alive than some other jobs (and some are just plain better than Paladin at staying alive).

[Zyeriis]

I'm not trolling and it's not word play. DD jobs being able to survive while maintaining capped Enmity and dealing damage is nothing new and has been happening for years. I've seen people tank Khimaira on Corsair =/. It's not hard for anyone to stay alive against an NM, and if the Devs were to make it harder, Paladins would simply suffer too since they're not really much better at staying alive than some other jobs (and some are just plain better than Paladin at staying alive).

Thanks for your opinion (yet again) based upon personal experience (which can differ among other people, which is why it is called "personal" experience) that offers absolutely nothing to thread (again). If you're going to continue being so arrogant, why not grace us "rubbish" people with your brilliance as to how to fix the things you repeatedly bring up? That too hard for you?

[Akujima]

Proposed Enmity fix #1: New Job Trait
The Knight's wail
Instant Stun effect reseting hate for all other party/allaince members within A0E say 10' (excluding the PLD's hate)
Recast timer 2:00

(I think you meant Job Ability, not Trait)

But still pretty cool.

This along with...

Job Ability: Courageous Plea (Opposite of Tranquil Heart)
Increases Enmity Gain from healing magic
Recast Timer: 3:00
Effect Duration: 3:00

(Decided this would be better as a JA, due to having the option of wanting to gain more enmity through healing or not)