Paladin: Possibilities

[Malamasala]

A Majority of the time, yes, but isn't that what PLD is supposed to do?

You are supposed to use strategy. Avatars for example are excellent tanks. But you don't see every Summoner in town complaining that they are terrible at getting hate. Instead we accept that to let an avatar tank, we need to keep all other form of damage low.

I'm all for buffing PLD though, as long as avatars get equal treatment because while they are made for tanking, they can't hold hate at all. Though for anyone to agree with me, we have to rename Titan to Tankan, else people will look forever at which part of Summoner says tank, while Paladin obviously screams tank.

[Zyeriis]

Modifications #3

1) Cover

-1A) Make it a Job Trait

--1a) Aura
This is a variant of the 1A idea. Rather than requiring you be between the enemy and the player with hate, thus resulting in potential for "everyone stand behind the PLD" mentality (even if obscure) make it into a job trait that creates an aura (area of effect) around the Paladin. Party members within the area of effect, if they have hate and are being attacked, would have a chance to get "Covered" by the Paladin on each hit. The proc rate for this would be relatively low (at least not as high as it would be with 1A). This would make Cover into a trait that is a more classic final fantasy cover mechanic, where the paladin randomly blocks an attack made upon a party member.

How would it visually work? The Paladin's character model would suddenly appear between the person being attacked and the monster (while temporarily disappearing from where they are currently standing), show the Paladin doing a blocking motion and then disappearing and reappearing at the original location of the player (somewhat like super jump on dragoons without the delay). Add on enmity gain when this procs to redirect hate at the paladin for getting in the enemy's way as well.

3) Enmity

-3F) Enmity transfer Job Ability
This is not a simple "Use this ability on some one else and take their enmity" job ability idea. This is another job ability similar to Rampart that hits everyone within range of the AoE. The difference is that this job ability would result in an enmity siphon effect where the Paladin would draw the enmity levels from anyone being attack that is placed under this effect when the Paladin uses the ability. The enmity that they lose from various actions (or from being hit) would, instead of disappearing, be transfered to the Paladin. The ability would also siphon enmity (very slowly) from everyone under the effect that has enmity but, only to a certain point (as in no one under the effect would be able to lose more than X% of their enmity while under the effect). The X% being reached could also lead to the removal/loss of the status effect for that person. When I say X%, it is a number that I cannot determine, as that would be a balancing issue.

In this manner, Paladin would be able to slightly overcome the enmity cap (temporarily) so long as some one else gets hate (and then loses some enmity) and the Paladin is currently under the effect of the job ability. The job ability itself would have a recast timer that exceeds its effect duration like sentinel and rampart do, so as to not make this enmity cap breaking ability permanent.

Why add this? This ability would not be for the early stages of battle, wherein the Paladin is able to hold hate as it, and other party members reach the enmity cap. The current problem with things as they are now is that melee DD can reach the cap as well and draw hate. This ability would be for later in the battle when they do steal hate (while both they and the Paladin are at max enmity) to continue to tank awhile longer due to the other party member's enmity dropping while under the effect of the job ability and the Paladin's breaking cap simultaneously, albeit temporarily (until other abilities such as sentinel can be used again).

[Akujima]

1) Cover

-1A) Make it a Job Trait
Cover is likely one of the most under used job abilities that a Paladin has access to. It is simply impractical to use. Yes, there are other job abilities that Paladin has that are likely used even less but Cover stands out as an actual potentially useful ability with an insane recast timer. The best solution for this? Turn it into a job trait that only works if you are wielding a shield with a high proc rate.

Detailed Explanation: Cover as Job Trait would only require the Paladin be between the person with hate and the enemy (just like the job ability) except this job trait would be active at all times (but not necessarily with a 100% proc rate, I leave that up to the dev team, it could be like Zanshin in respect to not always procing). This solution fixes a lot of problems with paladin AND makes cover itself extremely useful. Paladin itself would no longer need to beat the DDs for hate. Paladin would be able to use their hate to the advantage of the party by simply shielding the person with hate from the enemy.

Very nice indeed. I like this because it adds dynamics to gameplay. This along with an enmity boost and a PLD specific "provoke" could make PLD useful again.

EDIT: Nevermind, I just read this and realized about the whole "Everyone stand behind the PLD mentality" that would occur.

Modifications #3

1) Cover

-1A) Make it a Job Trait

--1a) Aura
This is a variant of the 1A idea. Rather than requiring you be between the enemy and the player with hate, thus resulting in potential for "everyone stand behind the PLD" mentality (even if obscure) make it into a job trait that creates an aura (area of effect) around the Paladin. Party members within the area of effect, if they have hate and are being attacked, would have a chance to get "Covered" by the Paladin on each hit. The proc rate for this would be relatively low (at least not as high as it would be with 1A). This would make Cover into a trait that is a more classic final fantasy cover mechanic, where the paladin randomly blocks an attack made upon a party member.

How would it visually work? The Paladin's character model would suddenly appear between the person being attacked and the monster (while temporarily disappearing from where they are currently standing), show the Paladin doing a blocking motion and then disappearing and reappearing at the original location of the player (somewhat like super jump on dragoons without the delay). Add on enmity gain when this procs to redirect hate at the paladin for getting in the enemy's way as well.

But, I agree. Definately something done with Cover can be done. And also your Enmity JA sounds pretty interesting, but I'll have to read it once more to wrap my head around it lol...

Good ideas man.

[Zyeriis]

Modifications #4

1) Cover

-1E) Reverse Enmity Loss while covering some one
This idea is likely the simplest so far, regarding cover. While you are covering some one with cover in it's current form, you are essentially getting in the enemy's way. Attacks you take are in technicality directed at the person behind you, not you. Thus, Cover should be adjusted to lower the enmity of the person you are protecting whilst at the same time, increasing your enmity because you are aggravating the enemy by blocking it from it's intended target. You shouldn't lose enmity while covering some one else basically (from damage or otherwise).

3) Enmity

-3A) Raise it or Remove it for PLD specifically

--3a) Slight raise to enmity (Paladin specific)
This is a clarification addition to the enmity cap paladin-specific raise. Some might argue that raising the enmity cap for Paladin only is game breaking and then Paladin would be able to hold hate 100% of the time. This is simply not true depending on the degree of the increase. Increasing the cap enough that Paladin would be able to take and hold hate with a hate grabbing ability (provoke, flash, animating flourish) while not increasing it so much that a few hits wouldn't drop the Paladin's enmity back down below the enmity cap of other jobs wouldn't upset the "difficulty" of holding hate. It would merely allow Paladin to have a slight edge in enmity/hate, making them more viable in this position while blood tanking, which is their intended role.

--3b) Raise the enmity cap across the board, significantly
People can and do argue that any DD job can out enmity-gain a Paladin. This is a possibility (not necessarily the truth). While this is a problem, which there are solutions for in and of itself (see 3B: Paladin Provoke Style Ability and Enmity Control). That is a separate problem, even though it does affect enmity in it's current state. Raising the enmity cap in general would allow for Paladin (with greater enmity gaining capabilities) to prolong how long it can hold hate. Raising the enmity cap would prolong the time it takes to reach the enmity cap. If Paladin can gain enmity faster through job abilities and spells than DDs spamming damage, then Paladin would be able to hold hate for longer before the enmity cap is reached.

Granted this would not solve the issue of what would occur when the DDs catch up because the PLD is stuck at the cap but, this solution is about prolonging this eventuality, not getting rid of it. Raising the enmity cap may also cause some type of disturbance mage-side because, let's face it, no one can gain enmity better than a careless mage. However, with job traits like Tranquil Heart appearing on the horizon for Red Mage, and White Mages smart enough to know that enmity - gear is brilliant, this may be less of a problem then I (or anyone else) make it out to be.

5) Shields

-5B) Magic Deflection
Disclaimer: This is potential the most potentially over-powered idea I've come up with thus far. This idea will likely spark discussion, some bad, some good. Try to keep it constructive and on-topic.

Magic evasion. This term denotes "resisting" a magic spell such as fire, reducing it's damage but not annulling its damage. "1 of Player's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears" denotes a player annulling an attack (magic or physical) completely by sacrificing a magical buff and is referred to as "Blink tanking". "Blink tanking" has become extremely popular these days in Abyssea. While not the only reason that Paladin has been left in the dust, it is still one of the big ones.

So, how can Paladin overcome this clear disadvantage? Some will say stack MDB and MDT- gear. While right, it is not always practical to do so, is it? Paladin's will still take damage to some extent (perhaps not even that much less) and will still lose enmity. Enmity, the greatest need of a tank (can't tank if the mob isn't interested in you anymore). Then come people who claim that Paladin needs more DD capabilities to hold that enmity. There is a conflict here. If they give Paladin more DD capabilities then they'll be expected to use DD gear primarily. Where goes that MDB and MDT- gear? Into a macro that you use while the enemy is casting? Yes, that could work, some times but the Paladin would still take damage and still lose enmity.

What does that leave us with? A relatively endless cycle of inevitably that is enmity loss (first because we still take damage from single target magic spells and second because if we switch between melee to MDB gear when it's casting, we're no longer gaining as much enmity to keep up while subsequently losing enmity when we get hit with the spell and take damage anyway).

I am aware, that thus far I haven't actually offered the solution. I needed to affirm the train of thought this idea came from (or at least to try). In any case, the idea here is to add another sub-proc to shield procs against physical attacks. Add a proc against single target magic attacks. Using the shield to "deflect" incoming magic at random (more random than a normal shield proc but not overly random as to make it useless). This does not replace utsusemi tanking as it is not a guaranteed success. However, being able to deflect potential enmity-losing, death-inducing damage with a Paladin's signature shield would be a welcomed addition to a relatively forgotten job.

[Zyeriis]

No one has any input on the later entries to the list?

[Akujima]

No one has any input on the later entries to the list?

PLD was one of the most loved/wanted/needed jobs Pre-Abyssea.

The real thing SE needs to look at before implementing major upgrades to combat, jobs, etc, is how the playerbase is going to react. Unfortunately for FFXI, alot of the playerbase just wants to do things "quickly and efficiently" all the time, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be efficient. But what SE failed to realize, is the characteristics of certain jobs, and how they work in relation to one another.

Without realizing these characteristics, they'll continue to create an imbalance between the jobs. Jobs will be left out by players if there is no "NEED" for them anymore. Melee can take hits easily now, very easily. There's no fear of being KO'd anymore if the Enemy/Boss takes a few swings at you.

PLD is a tank, and should always be a tank. As far as how to fix PLD, you have some great idea's. But I think the general issue on the concept of "Tanking" needs to be addressed.

[Greatguardian]

PLD was one of the most loved/wanted/needed jobs Pre-Abyssea.

Only among low/mid-tier linkshells and players who generally did not know better. This has not been the case in the Endgame scene for the better part of half a decade now (2007-ish?). Half a dozen jobs all tanked better than Paladin before Abyssea, and still tank better than Paladin now.

The real thing SE needs to look at before implementing major upgrades to combat, jobs, etc, is how the playerbase is going to react. Unfortunately for FFXI, alot of the playerbase just wants to do things "quickly and efficiently" all the time, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be efficient. But what SE failed to realize, is the characteristics of certain jobs, and how they work in relation to one another.

Without realizing these characteristics, they'll continue to create an imbalance between the jobs. Jobs will be left out by players if there is no "NEED" for them anymore. Melee can take hits easily now, very easily. There's no fear of being KO'd anymore if the Enemy/Boss takes a few swings at you.

Melee could always take hits. Like, seriously, this has never been a problem for melees. The only reason DD jobs got a bad rap for "Dying easily" is because most DDs sucked and didn't carry PDT/MDT sets. A Monk with 40 Def and -50% PDT in gear is going to take way less damage than a "Typical/Classic" Paladin in 600 Defense and 0 PDT.

PLD is a tank, and should always be a tank. As far as how to fix PLD, you have some great idea's. But I think the general issue on the concept of "Tanking" needs to be addressed.

Paladin is a sword wielding Melee job with access to White Magic, Shield bonuses, and some Defensive traits/JA. Whether or not that equates to being a tank is up to the players. As it stands, that particular combination is lackluster at best. Tanks do much better avoiding hits entirely than they would "Taking them for less damage". I had to put less damage in quotes because Paladin really doesn't take less damage than anyone else without an Ochain.

[Akujima]

Paladin is a sword wielding Melee job with access to White Magic, Shield bonuses, and some Defensive traits/JA. Whether or not that equates to being a tank is up to the players.

So let's talk about this.

You want everything to be entirely left up to the players? So what is the challenge and fun, in running through a maze that you built yourself? You're going to know every angle, every correct turn and will be near impossible to get lost. Why? Because YOU built it.

The quote above is kind of like saying "Oh WHM is a club wielding job, that has access to White Magic, Club Skills and lots of MP. Whether or not that equates to being a healer is up to the players"

Lol...

[Greatguardian]

So let's talk about this.

Okay.

You want everything to be entirely left up to the players?

Until it is against the ToS to play jobs any way the players want, this will always be the case.

So what is the challenge and fun, in running through a maze that you built yourself? You're going to know every angle, every correct turn and will be near impossible to get lost. Why? Because YOU built it.

No. This is an incorrect analogy. The Developers build the maze. The Players then determine the fastest/best/most efficient course throughout the maze. When Route A takes twice as much time and energy to traverse as Route B, Route A will likely be discarded in favor of Route B.

The quote above is kind of like saying "Oh WHM is a club wielding job, that has access to White Magic, Club Skills and lots of MP. Whether or not that equates to being a healer is up to the players"

Lol...

White Mage doesn't have to be a healer. It is simply well equipped to be a healer. Whether or not it is efficient for White Mage to be a healer is left to the determination of the player base.

[Akujima]

PLD was one of the most loved/wanted/needed jobs Pre-Abyssea.

Only among low/mid-tier linkshells and players who generally did not know better.

Do not blame me if you find yourself unable to properly convey what it is you are trying to say.

Do not tell me "You don't know any better" if you can't figure out what it is I'm trying to say in the first place: The general issue on the "Concept" of Tanking needs to be addressed.

Concept. Concept. Concept. Do you understand what the word means? Because I clearly remember having to explain myself over and over again in "A Ninja without Throwing".