[Gratitude] PS2 Limitations

[Dihlyte]

There is Help Desk / Adventuring Primer, which I believe Zenion was referring to as well, and which does indeed have heaps of directions to content and more... but I'm not sure how many people will even find it there, and it's of course not the same as Records of Eminence objectives.

I forgot it exists myself, until I saw someone on a live stream look up things there that I was talking about in chat (looks like it was initially added in the May 14, 2015 (JST) Version Update already).

Yeah I love this little thing.

The problem is I didn’t even know it existed until I already knew, and was clearing this content myself.

It’s great, but no one knows it exists, and the people who do know, already know everything about the content it covers.

[Alhanelem]

The thing is, people seem to love games from twenty or more years ago.

Yes, sometimes this is true. But it's mostly limited to games in certain categories that have aged especially well and are still approachable by gamers used to the current gen of games today. FFXI is, for all of its good points, not a very approachable game. You kind of have to be in the hardcore gamer category to truly appreciate it today. Back in the day, the virtual world concept was still in its early stages and had a lot of mystique to it. Today, there are tons of such games to choose from. I've asked many, many people in FFXIV about FFXI. Quite a few people think it's dead (in the unplayable sense, not the popularity sense) and even when you let them know it's not, they don't want to play an unpopular game. Others are aware of FFXI, but they're too invested in the game they're playing now to get into another MMO. Still others are curious, but then get put off by how difficult it is to create an account, subscribe, and get started (something SE can and should still fix...) Others are more casual players and think FFXI looks too intimidating.


I've maybe convinced one person they should "eventually" try it- after I did some streaming of me going through nyzul isle solo and comparing it to deep dungeons in FFXIV (they are avid solo runners of it and cleared on many jobs). And they may do it, but its clearly still not a priority. So yes- I actively do promote FFXI when the oppertunity arises, but I'm batting near zero when it comes to getting people to actually try it.


Secondly- Outside of fans of the game, FFXI does not have the "classic" status that would attract more of the general population that gets into retro games like you suggested. I'm also not sure FFXI is really old enough to be retro just yet. Retro mostly and usually means 2D pixel art games.

Ultimately, FFXI is going to be a pretty hard sell to all but the right people for a variety of reasons- even though in many cases, those reasons are the reasons why we posting here love the game.

Before there can be any hope of successful promotion of the game, there really has to be some more investment in the game itself. And at the present time, I'm not convinced that's likely to happen. Now if they promoted the game while they were still making TVR or RoV, it might have had more of an impact. We really need something new that we can leverage for any sort of promotional campaign.


(Not to mention how hard it is to convince people to subscribe to multiple MMOs- SE should really bring back the dual subscription discount, or, dare I suggest it, simply have it be an add-on to the FFXIV subscription for a few extra dollars and BAM, you have a whole another game's playerbase who has easy access to play this game that, in our eyes, IS classic. Considering how much of FFXI is actually in FFXIV, it could be to FFXIV like WoW Classic is to the current WoW. But I guess that would make too much sense.)

[Zenion]

FFXIV is the wrong place to find people to bring over to FFXI; for the most part, anyone there who would enjoy FFXI played it before FFXIV was launched, and either already plays both or moved on to the shiny newer game. Having a discounted subscription option for FFXIV players could bring some back, maybe, but I can't imagine it would be a lot. It probably wouldn't move many FFXI players over to FFXIV, either, that ship sailed decades ago; ultimately there just isn't that much to gain from doing it.

Now, if you know anyone playing Runescape or Everquest, you might find converts there. World of Warcraft, maybe, but if they like the gameplay there they'd like FFXIV more.

But yeah, that does seem to be where we are, doesn't it. There might be more players if there were more investment, but why invest if there aren't many players, and maybe the game would be an easier sell if it were more modernized but why invest in modernizing a game that very few people are playing? This is why there's so much discussion of a remake, and also why we all know deep down it's never happening. Unless someone can figure out how to drop Cloud Strife into the middle of Ru'Lude Gardens, anyway.

[BobbinT]

FFXIV is the wrong place to find people to bring over to FFXI; for the most part, anyone there who would enjoy FFXI played it before FFXIV was launched, and either already plays both or moved on to the shiny newer game. Having a discounted subscription option for FFXIV players could bring some back, maybe, but I can't imagine it would be a lot. It probably wouldn't move many FFXI players over to FFXIV, either, that ship sailed decades ago; ultimately there just isn't that much to gain from doing it.

fyi, there's gonna be a permanent addition of FFXI-alliance raid collabs at the upcoming patch 7.1 of FF14, which should follow the usual scheduled releases on 7.3 & 7.5. Again to re-iterate the permanent part, since back in 4.x SE also added a perma-trial battle collab with Monster Hunter franchise which is still available nowadays. And there's that Nier Automata perma-collab with their alliance raid series during 5.x.

Heck... they even promotes the very recent FF11's return home & discount campaigns as well:
https://x.com/FF_XIV_EN/status/1827058259347566985


Also, I came playing FF11 after FF14 & loved it, then again... it was also due to my love to the series in general as well. Still... this doesn't look like FF14 avoiding FF11, rather... they actually tries intrigues their FF14 base to check FF11, if not for the collab alone but as part of mainline series. Promoting FF11's campaign on their social medias already a move beyond the extra mile.

[Rinuko]

fyi, there's gonna be a permanent addition of FFXI-alliance raid collabs at the upcoming patch 7.1 of FF14, which should follow the usual scheduled releases on 7.3 & 7.5. Again to re-iterate the permanent part, since back in 4.x SE also added a perma-trial battle collab with Monster Hunter franchise which is still available nowadays. And there's that Nier Automata perma-collab with their alliance raid series during 5.x.

Heck... they even promotes the very recent FF11's return home & discount campaigns as well:
https://x.com/FF_XIV_EN/status/1827058259347566985


Also, I came playing FF11 after FF14 & loved it, then again... it was also due to my love to the series in general as well. Still... this doesn't look like FF14 avoiding FF11, rather... they actually tries intrigues their FF14 base to check FF11, if not for the collab alone but as part of mainline series. Promoting FF11's campaign on their social medias already a move beyond the extra mile.

It is nice that they are try to promote 11, but will they after the raid is out?

Not sure if it will be enough for me to re-sub to 14, I usually get bored within a week when I do.
Right now, I'll probably just watch a summary or a livestream. I don't expect much from the raid than some nostalgia bosses from base game, possible CoP.

Who'da thunk that making a bad game would pressure them to make a better one? But it had absolutely nothing to do with WoW.

It would be disingenuous to say FF14 ARR doesn't borrow a lot of inspiration from World of Warcraft, and they do from 14 in return. IIRC, the devs were suggested to play WoW while remaking ARR but I could be misremembering that fact.

[Dihlyte]

The thing is, people seem to love games from twenty or more years ago..

I assume this discussion is about FFXI vs FFXIV, and similar game designs.

Modern WoW is a dying game.

FFXIV is modeled after modern WoW.

Classic WoW kept modern WoW alive.

Old School RuneScape is just as popular, if not more so, than FFXIV.

FFXIV:ARR -*only*- was successful because FFXIV 1.0 failed and WoW was failing.

If FFXIV announced it would cease releasing expansions, that game would immediately be shut down.

To believe games like modern WoW and modern FFXIV are beacons of the industry, simply isn’t reflective of the RPG genre.

Baulders Gate 3, Old School RuneScape, and even Classic WoW speak far more accurately than the extremely lucky FFXIV trends.


Far more players have tried and quit FFXIV, than those who play and enjoy FFXIV.

FFVII-Remake, FF16, and Forespoken are dramatically worse failures than Baulders Gate 3, Old School RuneScape, and many other comparisons to shallow easy action games, versus engaging, in-depth RPG’s.

People are craving a worthwhile game. Modern FFXIV, and modern WoW do not deliver.

Unfortunately most people don’t even know FFXI exists, and many of the ones who do, won’t tolerate its dated launcher, and controls.

[Alhanelem]

Now, if you know anyone playing Runescape or Everquest, you might find converts there. World of Warcraft, maybe, but if they like the gameplay there they'd like FFXIV more.

You know, I signed up to FFXI while waiting for WoW to come out. At the time I was into the Warcraft RTS series (i.e. warcraft II and III) and I was excited about the prospect of an RPG in the universe. But a friend got me into FFXI and I ended up sticking with that. Even though I did play WoW for a while, it was just a lot more repetitive and it had very little actual story at the time- It wasn't until many years down the road that they started putting any real effort into a storyline. FFXI had more jobs and a lot more variety in its content, these were the main things that kept me on team Final Fantasy over team Warcraft.

I will accept that you're mostly correct that anyone in FFXIV who knows about FFXI are largely former or even current FFXI players or people who know but either think it shut down or aren't interested. But that's not to say there's no one there who isn't playing now that wouldn't be interested. And the upcoming FFXI-themed raid in another month or two will likely have some people asking questions.

Modern WoW is a dying game.

Yeah, gotta stop you there. While WoW Classic (which is not locked to a particular era like everyone here seems to want, but rather is just like 5 expansions behind the current game) has been a boon for Blizzard, helping to keep subscribers between patches (it's included in a WoW subscription, its not like they get extra money for it), Modern WoW is absolutely not anywhere close to dying. Maybe you were living under a rock when they announced not just one but a series of three full expansions? They've got a minimum of several more years of new content coming their way.

Your dislike for modern MMOs is leading you to believe things that simply aren't true. There's nothing whatsoever wrong with you not liking today's games . Even I have grown a lot pickier about what I play and find myself going back to a lot of classic games over buying new ones. But you wanting modern games to be dying doesn't make them actually dying.

FFXIV:ARR -*only*- was successful because FFXIV 1.0 failed and WoW was failing.

Who'da thunk that making a bad game would pressure them to make a better one? But it had absolutely nothing to do with WoW.

[Dihlyte]

I disagree with most of these, and most is factual false.
But, I get the feeling you're a 11 purist and hate anything SE has done and released the past 1.5 decade.

That post is barely a few paragraphs, far from a wall of text.

Also, this being a RPG without voice acting, a lot of text to read, and making a post saying “wall of text” in a text base forum is quite peculiar.

I don’t know what a “FFXI purist” means, but I played FFXIII, FFXIII-2, FFXIII-LR, and enjoyed XIII-2 so much it was my favorite for a while.

I played and beat FFXV, and played and beat FFXIV 1.23b, FFXIV:ARR, in fact, I’ve played and beat every FF from FFI-XV, including 1.23b/5.4, as well as many spin-offs.

I have collected platinum trophies, ultimate weapons, etc etc.

So as far as you saying “factually false” I will need to know exactly what you’re saying is false.

FFXIV 1.0 was factually shut down.

FFVII-Remake/Rebirth, and FF16 were quoted by Square-Enix directly, failing to meet sales expectations, and FF16 has very low player reviews.

FFXIV factually loses 50% of its player base every 1-2 months after a new expansion, and 25% of the total play base doesn’t return until the next expansion.

I have 25,000 hours on XIV over 9 years, and I am very familiar with the trends of that game.

So yeah, if you want to try to tell me I’m wrong, you’re going to have to state the exact thing I’m saying that’s wrong, how it’s wrong, and pull up supporting facts, and links.

Otherwise; if you can’t produce a discussion, and reasoning for your statements, you won’t be interacted with.

[Rinuko]

you won’t be interacted with.

Well, I clearly hit a nerve. Thanks for the laughs, I guess.

I find it hilarious that you demand me providing sources, when you're the one making claims, with a lot of it feels pulled from your behind.

FFXIV factually loses 50% of its player base every 1-2 months after a new expansion, and 25% of the total play base doesn’t return until the next expansion.

Citation/source needed.
That they lose players every couple months is normal with their model. This isn't exactly new and been a thing since ARR. For someone claiming playing 25k hours, you should know that.

[Dihlyte]

Well, I clearly hit a nerve. Thanks for the laughs, I guess.

I find it hilarious that you demand me providing sources, when you're the one making claims, with a lot of it feels pulled from your behind.



Citation/source needed.
That they lose players every couple months is normal with their model. This isn't exactly new and been a thing since ARR. For someone claiming playing 25k hours, you should know that.

You didn’t strike a nerve, but the fact that’s how you’re responding, confirms you aren’t actually interested in a discussion, and if your next comment isn’t following the discussion, as this one hasn’t, I won’t respond to you again.

I find it extremely odd, that comments and commenters like this can never stay on topic or respond with anything that is even capable of being responded to. Essentially, I know your type on the internet, and it’s not worthwhile.

For example, I asked you to point out one thing that’s false, that you need context for, and you didn’t.

The one thing you did ask for me to comment on, is now a new statement.

Then, you said you agree with what I just said, and admitted that having experience I would know it.

But, if you view any metric available on the internet, you can confirm this.

View any patch cycle here.

https://steamcharts.com/app/39210

65,000-29,000 is more than 50%

“This is only steam” yes, but a metric is a metric.

If steam losses 50% it’s extremely likely that PS/non Steam users also follow a similar trend.

Go find any post on FFXIV that is 3-4 years old. 70% or more of the posters on older posts on the forums won’t have current max level on the listed character.

Go to the official lodestone, type:

na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/1

Then change 1 to 2, do that for any number you like up to 40000000 and over 75% of the random numbers you choose will be deleted or below current max level.

This number represents characters created since ARR launched.

The vast majority of players that try FFXIV, quit in 2-3 years.

If you go to any achievements tracking site, the numbers of max level players is also shows less than 50%

For example Lalachievements shows “100%”
Of players own a company chocobo, while only 48% show having the dawntrail mount.


100%=550,239 characters
48%= 262,600

Literally every measurable metric shows FFXIV loses 50%+ of its player base each expansion cycle.

You just agreed to it.