Phoenix and Bahamut Summons

[Zenion]

Phoenix probably doesn't have animations, but that's fine; it doesn't feel like a "use it all the time" summon anyway. It would fit in with Odin and Alexander as an SP ability.

I still think the most sensible thing for it to do is already taken, Cait Sith's Altana's Favor ability, but what if it did something like Perfect Defense but for healing? Very strong Regen and Refresh effect that weakens over time, and maybe grants a Reraise IV effect while it's active?

As for Bahamut and Chaos... I mean, it's one or the other, right, since Chaos is Bahamut but with way worse TP moves to deal with? While Chaos would be neat, lore-wise I feel like summoning that thing would be like the worst idea. Karaha-Baruha would see that and be like "hey, hey buddy uh, maybe you should take it down a couple notches there." Bahamut, though... I'll be honest, the only reasons I can see to care about it - terror and dispelga - are the same reasons it's probably too much to give players. Take those away and it's just something you'd have for the sake of the collection, not a particularly worthwhile addition to a summoner's arsenal.

Well i don't remember seeing it when I did it (But it was a long time ago at this point), so it's w/e. Then fine, put it in.

And sure, chaos would be obnoxious too. but it's chaos. And ultimately one is considered an avatar and the other is not or has not explicitly been stated to be. And I'd argue Chaos is subjectively cooler looking.

I can't find a direct reference to Bahamut being a terrestrial avatar, but the indirect ones are pretty convincing. Bahamut talks about Phoenix as a peer, Tenzen talks about Bahamut and Diabolos when visiting Carbuncle, saying basically "why aren't the terrestrial avatars helping", Nag'molada talks about the Kuluu having the protection of the terrestrial avatars and Bahamut is the only one we know of to mention a pact with them. If you go through the Chains of Promathia script mission by mission, you'll probably find a mention, this was what I got just looking at the ones directly involving Bahamut and Carbuncle.

(EDIT: There it is. Darkness Named.

Tenzen: The terrestrial avatars are the five powerful gods born of Vana'diel and entrusted to protect her.

Tenzen: Many eons ago, the five avatars fought a fierce battle with an evil presence that attempted to envelop and suffocate our world.

Tenzen: There is the fiery bird of resurrection, Phoenix, whom the blade I carry at my side has been blessed by.

Tenzen: And then there is the ruler of dreams, Diabolos; the guardian of the moon, Fenrir; the bringer of rainbows, Carbuncle; and the conqueror of the skies, Bahamut... )

[Alhanelem]

I guess you got me there lol, Again though, it's been a very long time since i did that stuff, so the memory is fuzzy

While Chaos would be neat, lore-wise I feel like summoning that thing would be like the worst idea.

When summoners form pacts, they only get a small fragment of the avatar's actual power, it's not like we'd be bringing the same doom upon Vana'diel that the actual Chaos was threatening.

[Immortal]

Bahamut I think is the only one that fits astral flow only these days, alex and odin should be removed at this point. I am imagining him just appearing and shooting off a mega flare for tons of damage, maybe give a buff at the same time and it would be nice for zerg situations since conduit is typically nerfed these days on new content.

Phoenix historically has done fire damage and AOE raise, and then a pseudo reraise. Maybe it can do AOE fire damage + cure and RR4, and take astral flow. Or it can be a normal avatar and do AOE fire damage + arise and maybe a status affect that occasionally procs raise if you die with no weakness.

[Immortal]

Actually OPs idea of a bubble lingering after the mega flare seems really cool and we haven't had something like that before. Or would GEO complain? lol

[Jordache]

Actually OPs idea of a bubble lingering after the mega flare seems really cool and we haven't had something like that before. Or would GEO complain? lol

I think you can even get away with a Phoenix GEO aftermath ability like AOE regen: like it summons, explodes in a firey blaze, disappears and leaves behind this like: zone of phoenix dust for 3-5 min. maybe regain/regen/refresh halo? small but with 1/tic

[Alhanelem]

also frankly if they were to add some special power for smn at ML30 they'd have to do the same for other jobs, so I don't think gating anything cool behind ML is going to happen, especially when it will encourage more botting.

[Alhanelem]

Seriously though "Bahamut is a terrestrial avatar" is a really weird fact because, like, it's something that you sort of just know if you've got good retention for the CoP storyline

I mean I guess it is indirectly established by the overarching story, but I'm trying to find the dialogue where it is explicitly stated (Chaos was explicitly stated in the RoV story to be a terrestrial avatar- That's fresh in my mind because I only did it recently). I started with the missions which Bahamut is a direct part of which didn't turn anything up, now looking through other missions where they may be mentioned.

[Zenion]

I mean I guess it is indirectly established by the overarching story, but I'm trying to find the dialogue where it is explicitly stated (Chaos was explicitly stated in the RoV story to be a terrestrial avatar- That's fresh in my mind because I only did it recently). I started with the missions which Bahamut is a direct part of which didn't turn anything up, now looking through other missions where they may be mentioned.

I don't know if there's another point earlier or later in the storyline, but I did already give you one mission and the relevant dialogue from it - Darkness Named, where Tenzen discusses the terrestrial avatars and how none of them have been willing to help so far.

Sorry if you missed that since I had to add it in an edit after the fact, having done the very same searching myself.

[Beastorizer]

Agree with the OP, but a bit off topic......Always wondered what the deal with those Unicorns were. They look exactly like Avatars, don't they? The blur supernatural aura effect.

Anyway, Bahamut is past due.

[Alhanelem]

It's hard to have a good attitude towards you when I know better.

Your attitude is bad in general, I see it in your interactions with everyone, not just me. If you were less of a jerk all the dang time, everyone here would be able to take you more seriously.

No one asked you to care about anyone or anything. But you don't display even a basic level of decency in your interactions with others. Eventually you will come to realize that not being an arse has benefits.

Yeah, this is the internet, and there are little to no reprecussions for your actions. But just because you CAN be an arse, doesn't mean you HAVE to be. You were a jerk to me for misremembering stuff from 15+ years ago. You're being a jerk now and you've been a jerk in every interaction I've ever had. But it's not just me, I've seen you do it to others. Why should anyone take you seriously when you don't give a (something something) yourself? And that's not my words, you said it yourself that you don't care: Again, why should we then?

The biggest problem is your ego. Opinions are not facts, not even yours. You're really full of yourself to declare that you are simply right and everyone else is wrong. You're going down the exact same path that made many people here resent me, and frankly you're better at it than I ever was- that server merge thread must be the first time I ever got more likes than the OP of any thread.

People gave me feedback in a thread of my own creation that dunking on people's opinions without giving them any due consideration was a huge factor in their resentment and I'm trying to correct that, because I *do* care what people think and would frankly rather be friends with people if possible.