Phoenix and Bahamut Summons

[Jordache]

It's about time we discussed Phoenix and Bahamut summons: how do they work? How big are they? What is the purpose of summoning them?

Phoenix: Regenerative Medicine!
Lv 99 Master Evoker Astral Flow summon: Rebirth Flame
Rebirth Flame: Regen V plus ARISE (where applicable) and gives Reraise IV effects (Maybe III) to all in AOE range.
Only available to Mastered Jobs (you have those three stars above your head).

Bahamut: Patent-Issued Industrial Power!
Lv 99 Astral Flow Summon: Mega Flare
Mega Flare: Catastrophic AOE damage like Zantetsuken, with a GEO-type lingering DOT halo effect within a specific radius.
Only available to MAX-level Master level jobs (we're not there yet).

I don't care what SE said 500 years ago. Get past COVID and cancer cures and get the job done.

[Alhanelem]

Phoenix doesn't have a model in the game (as far as I know?), so even though it definitely should be a thing, it's unlikely. Bahamut is already in the game and could reasonably be done, but... it might be on the obnoxious side as a summon unless it's an astral flow-only one- and tbh, I don't really want to see more of that.

What we need more tbh, is Chaos, since they're established to be a terrestrial avatar.

[Immortal]

Your post kinda makes no sense. Chaos is a direct copy and paste of the Bahamut model with a recolor, so why would it also not be obnoxious? This is probably one of the only FF games where Bahamut is not summonable, it should def be in summoners magic. They could make him astral flow only and allow him to break the damage cap. If they did make him astral flow only, it should also be while under conduit too and take alex/odin off astral flow only.

Phoenix does have a model in the game, its seen at the end of ROV... its also in the model viewer alone without Iroha.

[Alhanelem]

Well i don't remember seeing it when I did it (But it was a long time ago at this point), so it's w/e. Then fine, put it in.

And sure, chaos would be obnoxious too. but it's chaos. And ultimately one is considered an avatar and the other is not or has not explicitly been stated to be. And I'd argue Chaos is subjectively cooler looking.

[Zenion]

Phoenix probably doesn't have animations, but that's fine; it doesn't feel like a "use it all the time" summon anyway. It would fit in with Odin and Alexander as an SP ability.

I still think the most sensible thing for it to do is already taken, Cait Sith's Altana's Favor ability, but what if it did something like Perfect Defense but for healing? Very strong Regen and Refresh effect that weakens over time, and maybe grants a Reraise IV effect while it's active?

As for Bahamut and Chaos... I mean, it's one or the other, right, since Chaos is Bahamut but with way worse TP moves to deal with? While Chaos would be neat, lore-wise I feel like summoning that thing would be like the worst idea. Karaha-Baruha would see that and be like "hey, hey buddy uh, maybe you should take it down a couple notches there." Bahamut, though... I'll be honest, the only reasons I can see to care about it - terror and dispelga - are the same reasons it's probably too much to give players. Take those away and it's just something you'd have for the sake of the collection, not a particularly worthwhile addition to a summoner's arsenal.

Well i don't remember seeing it when I did it (But it was a long time ago at this point), so it's w/e. Then fine, put it in.

And sure, chaos would be obnoxious too. but it's chaos. And ultimately one is considered an avatar and the other is not or has not explicitly been stated to be. And I'd argue Chaos is subjectively cooler looking.

I can't find a direct reference to Bahamut being a terrestrial avatar, but the indirect ones are pretty convincing. Bahamut talks about Phoenix as a peer, Tenzen talks about Bahamut and Diabolos when visiting Carbuncle, saying basically "why aren't the terrestrial avatars helping", Nag'molada talks about the Kuluu having the protection of the terrestrial avatars and Bahamut is the only one we know of to mention a pact with them. If you go through the Chains of Promathia script mission by mission, you'll probably find a mention, this was what I got just looking at the ones directly involving Bahamut and Carbuncle.

(EDIT: There it is. Darkness Named.

Tenzen: The terrestrial avatars are the five powerful gods born of Vana'diel and entrusted to protect her.

Tenzen: Many eons ago, the five avatars fought a fierce battle with an evil presence that attempted to envelop and suffocate our world.

Tenzen: There is the fiery bird of resurrection, Phoenix, whom the blade I carry at my side has been blessed by.

Tenzen: And then there is the ruler of dreams, Diabolos; the guardian of the moon, Fenrir; the bringer of rainbows, Carbuncle; and the conqueror of the skies, Bahamut... )

[Alhanelem]

I guess you got me there lol, Again though, it's been a very long time since i did that stuff, so the memory is fuzzy

While Chaos would be neat, lore-wise I feel like summoning that thing would be like the worst idea.

When summoners form pacts, they only get a small fragment of the avatar's actual power, it's not like we'd be bringing the same doom upon Vana'diel that the actual Chaos was threatening.

[Immortal]

Bahamut I think is the only one that fits astral flow only these days, alex and odin should be removed at this point. I am imagining him just appearing and shooting off a mega flare for tons of damage, maybe give a buff at the same time and it would be nice for zerg situations since conduit is typically nerfed these days on new content.

Phoenix historically has done fire damage and AOE raise, and then a pseudo reraise. Maybe it can do AOE fire damage + cure and RR4, and take astral flow. Or it can be a normal avatar and do AOE fire damage + arise and maybe a status affect that occasionally procs raise if you die with no weakness.

[Immortal]

Actually OPs idea of a bubble lingering after the mega flare seems really cool and we haven't had something like that before. Or would GEO complain? lol

[Alhanelem]

also frankly if they were to add some special power for smn at ML30 they'd have to do the same for other jobs, so I don't think gating anything cool behind ML is going to happen, especially when it will encourage more botting.

[Jordache]

Phoenix doesn't have a model in the game (as far as I know?), so even though it definitely should be a thing, it's unlikely. Bahamut is already in the game and could reasonably be done, but... it might be on the obnoxious side as a summon unless it's an astral flow-only one- and tbh, I don't really want to see more of that.

What we need more tbh, is Chaos, since they're established to be a terrestrial avatar.

Go finish your story missions.