FFXI is the most atmospheric, well-written, and unique computer-game of all time.

[Stompa]

So, yesterday I was reading the latest Square Enix economic declaration, about how they lost another couple hundred million in their latest experiments in game development.

This obviously saddens me, because back in the 90s, I handled my FF7 and FF8 Playstation discs like they were priceless holy relics. To me, Squaresoft was a divine superpower, granting gifts to the poor unfortunate mortals down here in meat-world.

When FFXI arrived in Europe in 2004, it totally swallowed me whole, I couldn't believe that such a beautiful and exciting computer-game could ever exist.

I marvelled at the combat-engine, game mechanics, menu system and macros. I rejoiced at the courteous behaviour of most players, </bow>ing courteously, and saying <Congratulations!> every time somebody dinged a level-up.

To me, FFXI was exactly the life I had always dreamed of online. Exciting, friendly, beautiful, and deeply, profoundly Role-Playing oriented.

And the text-writing. NPCs said things like "I'm saving up for a new parrot" in pirate-town Norg. Campaign NPC heroes said things like "behold the true embodiment of my sorrow" during pitched battles in war-ravaged hill-top stone forts.

The level of penmanship and wordsmithing involved in all of the quests, even the small humdrum throway lines, were so eloquent and beautifully written, that even William Shakespeare would have put down his quill in defeat, to go and raise goats somewhere instead, knowing that he could never write as beautifully as the FFXI mission/quest text writers were writing.

Dozens of vastly unique and fascinating jobs to play, millions of equips and items, wondrous monsters that were more Manga than any Manga I've ever seen. I still rate Moblins and WOTG-era Goblins as the coolest-looking animated creatures in all of computer-game and Anime history.

A living world, with days, nights, seasons, festivals. A cybernetic ecology of souls. Despite the toy-soldier / dolls graphical simplicity, the NPCs felt real, because they were alive in a world that was so intricately detailed.

And people played FFXI for 20+ years, and still love playing it after all these years. People still pay subs, willingly, and many cases, grateful for the continued opportunity to log-in at all.

FFXI was never "working the format" or "template concept." FFXI was truly unique. Even though it had AD&D elements, etc. FFXI was unlike any other game in history. There was no riding-on-coattails, no looting earlier franchises, no cheap-shot gimmicks. It was ground-breaking, exploring uncharted possibilities, a true masterpiece of imaginitive creation.

I've said before, that FFXI is the greatest computer-game ever made, in all of human history.

And it was a huge success. It still is. Somebody should tell SE this <fact>, because they seem to be struggling to create something successful and popular these days.

[Immortal]

FFXI deserves so much better... I hate how they have removed almost all funding for the game even tho it has been a stable source of income from them for over two decades. It deserves more and it would help them retain that revenue even longer instead of investing it into complete failures like Forspoken and such. FFXI is the best game ever made by them, and it is very unique and special to me. I think its quite an achievement to have a game still going after over two decades. While there are others also out there as long, this game has broken many records and achieved a lot of firsts. I wish we could continue it strong, but what can we do.

[Alhanelem]

while my feelings aren't quite as... superlative... as yours, I'd still agree FFXI was really something special and it does deserve better.

[Haldarn]

Despite the toy-soldier / dolls graphical simplicity, the NPCs felt real, because they were alive in a world that was so intricately detailed.

This is a key point that is oft-missed. The models standing there in a space in-game (and most of the game environs) are like words on a page - it's my brain that interprets them and creates the living world of Vana'diel based on the information provided to it. In one way, more modern graphics and animations make that easier, but in another it's unnecessary; build the dialogue, people and events, paint the pictures of the environments, flora and fauna, embody richness and attention to detail (not to mention a game system that keeps the other side of your brain busy) - that is the way developers should focus their time; not designing intricate details in corridors that 99% of players will run past without really looking at in a game area that's only briefly passed through once in a 100-hr playthrough.

[Dihlyte]

I agree 100%.

The thing I do not understand, is why SE never learns.

Final Fantasy the Spirits Within:
-Was all about graphics.
-Had nothing to do with Final Fantasy.
-No summons
-No Final Fantasy jobs
-No airships, nothing, and it was a massive failure.

FFXIII:
Was all about graphics.
-No towns
-no mini-games
-no job system
-limited secrets, etc, and it struggled.

FFXIV:
(The Original 1.0 before Yoshida)
-Was all about graphics
-didn’t run
-no FF jobs.

And it failed miserably.


Then the “Fixed” FFXIV 1.23b they did everything right.
-They focused on performance
-added FF jobs
-added chocobos
-added FF elements in the form of materia.

…Then immediately shut it down after they fixed it.

Then came FFXIV:ARR.
This still had all the traditional FF tropes, and rode the wave of success of 1.23b and the ground breaking determination to bring success from a failure.
-They kept the FF jobs focus,
-they added mini-games
-added content,
-and many other features.

Then came “Endwalker” 6.0 and soon “Dawntrail” 7.0 and they went backwards.

They started adding gundam jobs, and adding weird modern outfits, Fortnite dances, simplified the jobs beyond comprehension, ignored feedback for years.

Now with FFXIV 7.0 they have come full circle.

It’s a full focus on graphics, and gameplay has all but gone out the window.
Naoki Yoshida even says “if you want a challenge as healer, go play healer in ultimate” and yet the “hardest” Ultimate is cleanable without a healer at all!

That shouldn’t even be possible. Yet here we are.

I do not understand what is going on in SE.

They keep doing the same things, and it keeps hurting their finances, and reputation.

[kylani]

Well said and I couldn’t agree more. I’ve played many games over the past 20+ years and always come back to ffxi. FFXI is unique and special.

[Alhanelem]

It’s a full focus on graphics, and gameplay has all but gone out the window.

Uhmm.... its not out yet. And the plans for DT absolutely include catering more to their core base after they admitted that bending over for new players for so long was a mistake. It's not a "full focus on graphics," the graphics overhaul doesn't even require the expansion (and it is something that players have been asking for, as the current gear textures are pretty low resolution by today's standards). It's also something they should have done for FFXI over a decade ago. Heck, even the current engine for the game supports and is capable of better, as is clearly evidenced by all the third party visual enhancements that are out there.

I know practically everyone here loves to hate FFXIV, but talking about something that isn't even out yet while not basing your thoughts on known facts is not reasonable.

Then the “Fixed” FFXIV 1.23b they did everything right.
-They focused on performance
-added FF jobs
-added chocobos
-added FF elements in the form of materia.

While the 1.2x updates did improve 1.0 FFXIV quite a lot, it was still 1.0 with some nice stuff added.
-still massive empty copypasta zones
-still light on content
-still the incredibly dumb market ward system (although updates made it more bearable to use)
-still hard to access the content that did exist

They didn't really "fix" 1.0, just made it more enjoyable in the interim while they worked on the real project. It was always going to be shut down for ARR, it's not like everyone fell in love with it (sure, a few people did), they were still waiting for ARR. Frankly for me the most fun moment in 1.2x was when the server shutdown was imminent and they started spawning overpowered enemies in the cities and all over the palce, and there were some hilariously funny server messages that were broadcast in the moments before.


The dead set stance against making healer jobs more engaging I will however agree is really dumb.

Anyway.... My suggestion is if we want to lavish FFXI with praise, let's focus on that instead of bashing SE and everything else they've made/done.

[Dihlyte]

Reply.

I am not here to argue.

Additionally, you focused your entire rely on FFXIV, when mine was focused on multiple failed products.

Lastly, I don’t play the “it isn’t out yet” game.

I did not even buy 6.0, and I refuse to buy any new SE products until I see massive changes.

It’s called putting my money where my mouth is.

[Stompa]

This is a key point that is oft-missed. The models standing there in a space in-game (and most of the game environs) are like words on a page - it's my brain that interprets them and creates the living world of Vana'diel based on the information provided to it. In one way, more modern graphics and animations make that easier, but in another it's unnecessary; build the dialogue, people and events, paint the pictures of the environments, flora and fauna, embody richness and attention to detail (not to mention a game system that keeps the other side of your brain busy) - that is the way developers should focus their time; not designing intricate details in corridors that 99% of players will run past without really looking at in a game area that's only briefly passed through once in a 100-hr playthrough.

From a purely Player-side perspective, I'm running FFXI on a 10 ten year-old PC which was cheap and low-end when I bought it. FFXI runs smoothly on this old cheap PC. Not all players can afford high-end machines. My PC won't run any modern shiny-graphics games.

I could buy a good new PC, and play the new games, but I've seen a lot of footage of the new games on YT, and the games just don't appeal to me.

Planetary Scientists often refer to the "Goldilocks Zone" or the "Sweet Spot" to describe planets that are not too hot, not too cold, but just right.

To me, FFXI hits the Goldilocks Zone, the Sweet Spot. It is not Too Cold, with 1980s blocky 2D graphics, and it is not Too Hot, with ultra-realistic fancy new graphics.

I love FFXI partly because it is realistic enough to give us the clear impression of what the NPCs and Monsters look like, while also remaining doll-like and simple enough for my imagination to run riot and build my own impressions, adding my own details from my own memory.

Also, as mentioned before, not everyone has a high-end PC, and FFXI offers nice graphics that run smoothly, even on low-end machines. To me, this is the Goldilocks Zone, offering both nice basic graphics, while at the same time good kinetics, good movement, outstanding playability.

Doll-like simplicity is frowned-upon in the West, but in Asia where I live, dolls are considered sacred, precisely because they are simple. In the movie "GITS2 Innocence", the hacker-guy says that [paraphrased] "only God and dolls can achieve perfection." The point is that humans are too complicated, too detailed, too mired in the reality of life, to ever be perfect. But dolls are simple and graceful, thus perfect.

So, from an esoteric perspective, FFXI is actually perfect, in terms of doll-like / toy-soldier simplicity.

[Alhanelem]

Additionally, you focused your entire rely on FFXIV, when mine was focused on multiple failed products.

You implied that FFXIV is a failing product, and it really isn't. That's the issue. Also, if you're "not here to argue," then you're not in the right place. By posting opinions on a forum, you open them up to be disputed (or agreed upon) by others. Your comments demonstrated a clear bias I felt obligated to dispute due to inaccuracies.

Lastly, I don’t play the “it isn’t out yet” game.

I did not even buy 6.0, and I refuse to buy any new SE products until I see massive changes.

I'm not telling you to buy it, but you're unfairly judging something you know little about.

"it's not out yet" is not a game and I'm not telling you to play it. In fact, I'm telling you to wait for it to come out before judging it. Which is mostly what you're already doing, except for the "judging" part. You're almost acting like you want it to fail. Before saying "they're not listening / its gonna fail, why don't we wait and see what actually happens?

I haven't actually bought it yet either. But there's plain and obviously more to the new expansion that just updating the graphics. Whether what they're doing is enough or not, I can't say yet. But statements like yours oversimplifying irritate me. But ultiamtely we never needed to talk about FFXIV or any other game in a thread that was about honoring FFXI.

So, from an esoteric perspective, FFXI is actually perfect, in terms of doll-like / toy-soldier simplicity.

FFXI is amazing and wonderful, but it isn't perfect. I'm not talking about anything specific but there's always a way to make something even better.

Also since you discussed the graphics, it's worth mentioning that FFXI doesn't render them anywhere nearly as optimally as it could because it doesn't make use of your hardware. That doesn't mean we need powerful hardware, but a better system should be able to run it better it mostly doesn't. Which is why I and probably many of us have been wishing for a remaster, that doesn't change the game itself but makes everything run and look great no matter what kind of PC you have. After all, it was built to run on a PC of 20 years ago. We can take advantage of what's available today without stopping anyone from making it work on vintage hardware.

Frankly they could start by just raising the FPS cap to 60, which the game is fully capable of doing and all the animations play properly up to 60 FPS. Go higher than that and things break, but that would be a wonderful improvement they could make that requires almost no work at all from an implementation standpoint.

I could buy a good new PC, and play the new games, but I've seen a lot of footage of the new games on YT, and the games just don't appeal to me.

when we're talking "the new games" here, it sounds like you mean all video games. thousands of games have come out in the last 10 years. You can't possibly tell me there isn't even one that appeals to you?

I definitely don't buy games like I used to, but there are still some here and there that interest me and have me keeping up with the times.

But maybe you mean Final Fantasy games in particular, in which case I certainly feel you- I've honestly only played a few (mostly the spinoff FFCC series and the FFTA games) and I have little desire to play any of them besides XI and XIV. the latest one is basically just a third person action game now. it seems like a spinoff but it's positioned as a mainline game.