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  1. #1
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    10,238
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99

    This is a discussion forum.

    I've seen a number of cases over the years (including, but not only, recently) here where people post suggestions to SE and don't want to hear from anyone unless they agree with them. Such people need to understand that this is not merely a suggestion box and it is definitely not an echo chamber, unless of course you block everyone who doesn't agree with you.

    1. Forums are for discussion. When you make a thread, you are opening up your thoughts to all the other users of that forum. They are free to respond and share their own thoughts and opinions.
    2. Discussion has little value if everyone has the same opinion or perspective. If we all agreed on everything, there would be very little to say. Thus different viewpoints should be expected.
    3. SQUARE-ENIX provides channels on their support site for feedback and suggestions directly to them. If you do not wish anyone to discuss, analyze or debate your suggestion or opinion on something, these may be your best option. This forum is for everyone and you can not tell anyone not to post. If a user's opinion offends you and you don't want to hear from them, the forum provides an ignore list. Use it. Everyone will have a better experience. That said, if you only read posts of people who agree with you, you will not get an accurate picture of the situation. While SE invites suggestions to be posted here, you should expect and assume that someone (not necessairly me) out there will have something to say on the topic.
    4. Everyone here has the privilege to respond to any and every thread they wish to respond to. You can not tell someone they can't reply, because SE gave everyone the privilege to do so, as long as they follow the Code of Conduct and Terms of Use.
    5. At least from me, a disagreement with a post is not personal. In fact, this should be generally assumed from everyone.
    6. Post count has no meaning or value whatsoever. Like most of you, I'm here because of a passion for this wonderful game that has consumed thousands and thousands of hours of my life over the last 20+ years. I'm not here to just make a number go up.
    7. If you can not accept that others can and will comment on your threads, you should consider not posting them.
    I don't disagree with everyone on everything. But more often than not, supporting an idea or agreeing with an opinion can be simply signaled with a "like" on the post, which I often do. It is for this reason that there is a bias towards dissenting viewpoints. When people agree on things, there often isn't much to say.

    I invite you to disagree or debate me on the particulars of this. You will not find me telling anyone not to reply like I have observed recently. I always speak honestly and often bluntly, but as noted above, this isn't personal.

    Thank you for your time.
    (2)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 02-19-2024 at 07:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Player Uroah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    265
    Character
    Oecca
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RUN Lv 1
    No it isn't. Especially not for you and people like you, who are desperate for attention and argue no matter what the topic is for said attention. You and that behavior belong on reddit, 4chan, or twitter.

    Touch grass. And don't try to reply to me, this is not a discussion. And do not reply to him, when he tries to reply to me. Do not reward this behavior.
    (7)
    Last edited by Uroah; 02-17-2024 at 08:27 PM.

  3. #3
    Player Haldarn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    380
    Character
    Haldarn
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    I just wish there was more for us to discuss.
    (3)
    It all began with a stone...

  4. #4
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,572
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Uroah View Post
    No it isn't. Especially not for you and people like you, who are desperate for attention
    Coming from you, that's the funniest thing I've ever read here.
    (3)

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

  5. #5
    Player
    Join Date
    Feb 2024
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirmarki View Post
    Coming from you, that's the funniest thing I've ever read here.
    You got anything to back that up with? She's kind of onto something with this guy to say the least imo. Just from what I've seen and dealt with of him so far on this forum.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player Gwydion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,023
    Character
    Galkashield
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 1
    I appreciate the thoughtfulness, eloquence and effort you put into this post, but you tend to make a recurring mistake in the context and content of your replies.

    Your posts often lack empathy. This means that you often fail to put yourself in the shoes of the poster to see were the request is coming from. It's much too easy to post about all the reasons why you think someone's opinion is wrong, in the context of a discussion. The purpose of this forum, from SE's perspective is for us (players) to find common ground that can help them make decisions about the best course of action to take in developing the world of Vanadiel.

    Just like your replies and evidenced by your post here, your replies are not gospel. You are not in charge of the forums. Finally, I disagree with Likes being sufficient for positive discussion. Even if you disagree with someone's post, try to find a narrative that establishes common ground.

    TLDR: You have a tendency to be very divisive and just shutdown whoever you're talking to. It's easy to dismiss people in a reply, and a simple Like is not sufficient for discourse. Instead, find common ground about what you'd like to see in the context of another person's request. Show SE that we can agree on things.
    (7)
    私の言葉に悪意があるとは考えないでください。
    Please do not consider my words to be malicious.

  7. #7
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    10,238
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Uroah View Post
    No it isn't. Especially not for you and people like you, who are desperate for attention and argue no matter what the topic is for said attention. You and that behavior belong on reddit, 4chan, or twitter.

    Touch grass. And don't try to reply to me, this is not a discussion. And do not reply to him, when he tries to reply to me. Do not reward this behavior.
    There is no one on this forum who craves attention more than you. It's pretty funny to see you reply to threads made by users you've blocked. Selective hearing I guess.

    The hilarity of you thinking I care who replies or doesn't reply. I'm not doing this for a reward.

    And also, as I noted, you can't tell anyone not to reply, including me. We all have the privilege to do so by the grace of SE.
    (1)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 02-18-2024 at 04:32 AM.

  8. #8
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    10,238
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post
    I appreciate the thoughtfulness, eloquence and effort you put into this post, but you tend to make a recurring mistake in the context and content of your replies.

    Your posts often lack empathy. This means that you often fail to put yourself in the shoes of the poster to see were the request is coming from. It's much too easy to post about all the reasons why you think someone's opinion is wrong, in the context of a discussion. The purpose of this forum, from SE's perspective is for us (players) to find common ground that can help them make decisions about the best course of action to take in developing the world of Vanadiel.

    Just like your replies and evidenced by your post here, your replies are not gospel. You are not in charge of the forums. Finally, I disagree with Likes being sufficient for positive discussion. Even if you disagree with someone's post, try to find a narrative that establishes common ground.

    TLDR: You have a tendency to be very divisive and just shutdown whoever you're talking to. It's easy to dismiss people in a reply, and a simple Like is not sufficient for discourse. Instead, find common ground about what you'd like to see in the context of another person's request. Show SE that we can agree on things.
    No. You're right, I don't run these forums. But there are those who seem to need a reminder that they don't either. Everyone is free to post what they want, where they want, as long as it's within SE's established rules. And that's the key thing people don't seem to understand (particularly Uriah/oh/ah/whatever on his 10th account).

    As far as empathy.... It's not that I don't have any. But again, my general position, particularly when it comes to suggestions, is that I realize that we are going to get very little new in the future. Because of this, it is even more important that we prioritize the community as a whole. For example, with the thread that provoked me to write this, a user made a rather self-centered suggestion. Now I get it- this could have had special meaning to them; the point wasn't to just be a party pooper, the point was to help the community as a whole by my attempt to steer the devs towards ideas that would be more generally beneficial to the playerbase as a whole. I'm trying to put literally the entire community above myself or any one other person when I say things like "I don't think this is a good idea" or what-have-you. This doesn't come from a lack of empathy, but out of a sense of greater good to the entire remaining playerbase. I have tons of selfish wishes and ideas, but I don't post them here because of the reasons above. And it is essentially 100% certain that they would get shot down by people here. So why would I post them?

    That said, when I comment, it is my true thoughts coming through. I can not simply agree to something just for the sake of it, just as I am oft accused of the reverse, that isn't true either. Ultimately, it is as I said:
    Affirmations are usually conveyed by likes or maybe a short comment indicating support. I support a lot more things than you or most others seem to believe- There simply isn't much to say when I do, so again, it's either a simple ackbnowledgement or a "like" on the post.


    and a simple Like is not sufficient for discourse.
    I respectfully disagree. When people agree, there is usually little need for discourse in the first place, unless perhaps an idea is incomplete and needs fleshing out. Thus a like generally is sufficient. Square Enix often itself uses the system and asks people to like posts instead of responding on the same topic. (see: FFXIV forum) And obviously, if I agreed with you, there wouldn't really be any need for any of these words at all. That doesn't mean a like covers everything, but it is a reality of life that we talk about things we don't like or support than those that we do. Anger and frustration often compel us to speak. There are certain key topics that do not belong on this forum that I would point to as evidence of the human nature.

    Like I said: People are baised into thinking that I simply disagree with everything or deliberately try to create discord. I have backed and supported many ideas and cool things the community has done over the years- you just don't see me post a lot in those cases, because I have little to say. In other cases, you suggest trying to find common ground. And I do. But common ground is a two way street, the other person has to want to find it too, otherwise there simply isn't any.


    The purpose of this forum, from SE's perspective is for us (players) to find common ground
    The primary purpose of this forum is to discuss the game. That's why it exists. Yes, it has also been used at times for SE to collect feedback which is facilitated by us coming together on good ideas, but like I said before, this isn't simply a feedback system. This forum is here for players to meet and talk about the game in all ways- not just to give SE feedback and suggestions. This ends up happening a lot because we as players have lots of ideas, but it is not the explicit purpose of the forum.

    You know, I have more respect for you than you might think. I appreciate your comments and you are always thoughtful respectful, even in the face of opposition. I sometimes get the impression that some of you think I dislike everyone or something and that just really isn't the case, with possibly one exception. That said I accept and agree that I can and should do better. But I have to do so while remaining honest.
    (0)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 02-18-2024 at 04:41 AM.

  9. #9
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    10,238
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahalee View Post
    You got anything to back that up with? She's kind of onto something with this guy to say the least imo. Just from what I've seen and dealt with of him so far on this forum.
    You are welcome to your opinion of course, but you couldn't possibly have a less accurate view of the situation. Maybe you're not familiar with that poster's 20 mile long thread screenshotting STF reports that falsely accuse THE ENTIRE PLAYERBASE of botting Exemplar Points, simply for being in a particular zone. It is straight up malice. (Also, they are not a she.) This user falsely reports entire groups of people for cheating with no evidence, reporting "Everyone in the zone for third-party automation" when all it takes is one single person to enter the zone for any reason for that to become a false statement.

    I've been nothing but respectful to you, but you regularly make inaccurate assumptions about what I'm trying to say. I'm close to giving up at this point because no matter what I say, you just assume I have some ulterior motive or that I'm trying to disparage you in some way, neither of which is true. You keep going on about these "contexts" that I neither reference or intend to referencee- you just assume the worst. I truly wish the circumstances were different, and I am still entirely willing to try to come to an understanding. But for that to happen you have to stop assuming that I'm simply out to get you or something like that. I'm not.

    There are no secret meanings or contexts from me. Please read my words at face value don't assume there's some unspoken meaning. I'm blunt and honest and that just isn't something I do.
    (1)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 02-18-2024 at 04:34 AM.

  10. #10
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,572
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahalee View Post
    You got anything to back that up with? She's kind of onto something with this guy to say the least imo. Just from what I've seen and dealt with of him so far on this forum.
    Yep:

    https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/t...file-as-proof.
    (3)

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

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