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  1. #1
    Player Xilk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    730
    Character
    Xilkk
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99

    Sortie - Owning a tier 4 Prime weapon punishes players

    If any player in Sortie own and Tier 4 Prime weapon, the AI change in the bosses just makes each fight much more difficult and slower, with NO benefit in drop rate.

    This is just a punishment for players who work hard on content. Its a slap in the face... frankly it kills my motivation to make a prime weapon.. in which case why bother playing anymore?

    IF the AI change included is going to make the fights more difficult, then they should have a corresponding reward.

    if its nothing but a punishment, then.. this is a really poor decision for game design. its more aimed at ending participation than anything. its a new low in choosing ways to artificially slow progression.
    (16)
    Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
    --Beastmaster Forever--

  2. #2
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,572
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    As I said before, people just aint figured it out yet.
    (1)

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

  3. #3
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Posts
    35
    At the very least, inform players IN GAME that bringing a stage 4 weapon into sortie will have consequences. What an awful surprise if you missed the patch notes or did read them and didn't guess correctly at the vague hint given.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player Sirmarki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,572
    Character
    Sirmarki
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by jasnekholin View Post
    At the very least, inform players IN GAME that bringing a stage 4 weapon into sortie will have consequences. What an awful surprise if you missed the patch notes or did read them and didn't guess correctly at the vague hint given.
    Hasn't it always been that way though?

    Some quests/missions are very very vague but people worked them out in the end.
    (0)

    Sirmarki, ex-Fenrir, a young warrior, in the heyday.

  5. #5
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Posts
    35
    figuring out quests and missions is fine, learning that you irrevocably made finishing your prime weapon much much harder with no warning or input of your own is not.

    some group out there might finish with the new mechanics, but many people won't want to bring someone who has a stage 4 weapon because they won't be able to do the bosses with the new enrage.
    (1)
    Last edited by jasnekholin; 07-16-2023 at 09:31 PM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Posts
    261
    Wait so it's the same monsters as all the rest of us fight, but they get more difficult because someone in the party has a stage 4 prime weapon?

    What if the person leaves the weapon in Mog Safe or something? Or comes as a job that cannot use it? Or both?
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player Gwydion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    990
    Character
    Galkashield
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmarkvar View Post
    Wait so it's the same monsters as all the rest of us fight, but they get more difficult because someone in the party has a stage 4 prime weapon?

    What if the person leaves the weapon in Mog Safe or something? Or comes as a job that cannot use it? Or both?
    Doesn't matter. If you own a Stage 4 weapon, Sortie bosses are in an Enraged mode. Doesn't matter where you have the stage 4 weapon (Safe, Storage, etc).

    Unforturantely, this will have yet another exclusionary effect on 6-man static groups. This is just awful. Could you create a mechanic that ENCOURAGES collaboration? Perhaps, for every N Stage 4 Weapons, you get 1+(N-1)/10 additional Gallimaugry? (This is 10-50% extra for 2-6 Stage 4 weapons in Party).
    (7)

  8. #8
    Player Dzspdref's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    380
    Character
    Danallen
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Unequip the Stage 4 weapon, send it TO YOURSELF via mail delivery.
    The item is now "in limbo" and doesn't count as in YOUR inventory, but in the system's mid-process of no one's inventory until you either cancel it/take it out, or accept delivery.
    .
    Is this an option?
    .
    And, No Uriah, I did NOT check to see if they not deliverable, as I am currently unable to play game while on vacation, just thought I'd pop on to see if any updates. So don't need any snarky snotty replies from you about how come I'm not checking this before typing.
    I will check when I get home, but at least someone might benefit sooner if it works from trying if possible before I do get home.
    (0)
    Last edited by Dzspdref; 07-24-2023 at 10:10 AM.

  9. #9
    Player VoiceMemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    786
    Character
    Voicememo
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    That would not work, prime weapons at any stage are not sendable
    (2)

  10. #10
    Dev Team Yoji_Fujito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    404
    Good day, everyone,

    We have heard your feedback about certain Sortie notorious monster behavior changing once you have reached stage four of the Prime Weapon upgrade process.


    Information about This Issue

    Those of you who visit the forums are likely aware of the discussion, but for those who don’t, let me apprise you of how it works.
    In the May version update, we posted the following in the version update notes:

    • Certain Sortie notorious monsters now behave differently depending on the stage of the Prime Weapon you are carrying.
    The feedback surrounding this started coming around this time from those who reached this step of the process. “Certain notorious monsters” in this instance refers to the Lower Sortie boss.
    Prime Weapons are a type of end game content, and as such the final form of these weapons are intended to be stronger than other weapons found in the game. As such, we believe it is important that the risk be commensurate with the reward, and the changes made to the Lower Sortie boss were intended to ensure this was the case.

    The main adjustment that we made, in concrete terms, was changing the timing as which a particular ability was used—no adjustment was made to how hard the ability hits or how it interacts with resistances. I would like to avail myself of the opportunity to tell you that the intended strategy is one in which players utilize a mechanic by which the damage of the ability can be reduced, and that the adjustment made was predicated on the assumption that players would utilize that mechanic.
    Every boss in Lower Sortie—from the time of its implementation up through the present day—has a mechanic by which players can reduce the damage of their abilities, delay when their abilities are used, or cancel certain mode changes that make the bosses more threatening.
    Players are intended to use these gimmicks to maintain their seals as they tackle the content, and failing to do so makes the bosses much more difficult to tackle than they otherwise would be.

    What Effects These Changes Had

    We are aware that some of you have expressed concerns that it is more difficult to simply collect spoils and gallimaufry in a “normal” Sortie run if someone with a stage four Prime Weapon is in the party.
    The game automatically checks the stages of each player’s Prime Weapon, so if someone is in possession of a stage four Prime Weapon, this phenomenon is unavoidable.

    As a result, the player in possession of a stage four Prime Weapon might feel responsible for causing other players to have a more difficult version of Sortie than intended, and may in fact feel some hesitation at joining a party that is simply there to farm resources, as they wish to not make things harder for others.

    We did not intend for players to have their gameplay experience or ability to participate in Sortie adversely affected, but if this issue is causing consternation for players, then I feel it must be addressed.

    How This Issue Effects Empyrean Armor

    Some people have mentioned that they a frustrated by the effects that this has on reforging Empyrean armor, but as mentioned, the adjustments affected only the behavior of the Lower Sortie boss and thus has no effect on reforging Empyrean armor. Even though you have to go to Lower Sortie if you are reforging Empyrean Armor to +3, there is no need for you to attempt the Lower Sortie boss.

    These are the two main points surrounding the changes to difficulty level and the effects they are having on farming parties. The latter is a system-based problem and we are currently discussing how to address it.

    About the Mechanic

    As I discussed earlier, the Lower Sortie Boss is tuned around the assumption that players are properly using the intended mechanic to mitigate damage taken. Although utilizing the mechanic will not make the boss a walk in the park, perhaps shedding a bit of light on it will make overcoming the challenges the boss poses a bit easier and well known amongst the community at large.

    While the discussion below assumes one or more players has a Prime Weapon at stage four, these mechanics will work regardless of difficulty level.


    The mechanic for handling the notorious monster properly revolves around the two temporary items Ra’Kaznar Seal and Ra’kaznar Metal.

    Posessing these items allows you to mitigate the corresponding notorious monster’s special ability. However, these items degrade each time the NM uses its ability, and when their durability reaches zero they will cease functioning. However, they will slowly regain durability over time as long as they have at least some durability remaining.

    Dhartok
    Dhartok changes modes after a certain ability is used.
    If you force him to absorb damage of a particular element, the durability of your seal will degrade, so be careful when dealing elemental damage.
    One Dhartok’s behavior changes, he will use the ability at increasing frequency, so using the seal to mitigate the poison damage will prove critically important.

    Gartell
    Dealing damage under certain conditions while Gartell is in wind or lightning mode will causing two blue exclamation marks to appear, and doing that same kind of attack multiple times will cause him to switch modes from wind to lightning or vice versa.
    Whenever Gartell switches modes, the next use of his special ability will be delayed. Properly managing how often you switch him between wind and lightning mode will prove critical.


    Triboulex
    It is possible to decrease the damage done by Setting the Stage by repeatedly dealing light-based damage. Note that autoattack-based damage does not count towards this amount.
    He will use the ability at set intervals, but once his behavior changes he will also use it at certain HP thresholds, so be conscious of when you are bringing him down below those thresholds.

    Aita
    If you deal him damage with an elemental weakness that corresponds to his special attack (for example, by using a water attack if his special ability is fire), thn two blue exclamation marks will appear. Note that autoattack-based damage does not count.
    Repeatedly causing the exclamation marks to appear in this manner will decrease the damage dealt by Vivisection. Not that if you cause him to absorb elemental damage, the potency of Vivisection will instead increase, so use caution when attacking.
    When Vivisection’s damage is brought below a certain threshold, his wings will disappear and the rate at which your seal’s durability decreases will be slowed, so keeping him in this state will prove vital.

    Aminon
    Dealing damage multiple times with an elemental weakness that corresponding to his special attack when his earrings glow will cause a Zisurru to vanish.
    If you are able to properly manage that number of Zisurru, you will be able to delay his use of Bane of Tartarus. Maintaining this state will prove key to victory.


    While I do not believe we have fully solved how to handle this issue, I wanted to be able to share with what the intended behavior was and provide the relevant information in a clear way.
    The other unintended side effects that these changes have had on gameplay are an issue that we are currently researching, and we are discussing potential measures that we may wish to take.

    Thank you, and best of luck in Sortie!
    (4)
    FINALFANTASY XI Producer/Director Yoji Fujito

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