The Aegist

[Alhanelem]

Supporting it out of pure contrarianism or trolling is pleb tier.

It's a good thing none of us are doing that.

The reason someone that wins a sports event gets a gold medal or trophy is because our brains are hard wired to enjoy a visible trophy for the hard effort, even if the money/stat boost is the primary reason.

That ship sailed like a decade ago.

As others in this thread have already stated, relics haven't been considered an accomplishment for a long time, and it certainly seems like the playerbase has accepted that. The notion that the existence of this item is minimizing an accomplishment as you're suggesting with this comment is inaccurate at best.

When I started working towards Claustrum, there wasn't a single one in existence yet, while every other relic had at least one (With the next least popular being the axe I think). But today, making relics is fairly trivial (easy and not all that time consuming against a lot of other far more time consuming items in the game), and by the time I actually finished mine, several more dedicated people had made one just for the sake of making one. It wasn't really an accomplishment except maybe for the first person who actually did it. I've accepted that, and I think most people who have relics have accepted that. If they created this item 10 years ago, sure, I could maybe understand people being a little upset.

There are cases where you could make this argument, but I don't think the Agest is a good case study for this issue.

FFXIV used to have highly exclusive rewards for topping the rankings in PvP, and the people who actually played The Feast during this time were constantly annoyed at people begging SE to make these items available from other content because they didn't want to do PvP but wanted to have EVERYTHING. In this case, doing so WOULD be a minimzation of accomplishment because achieving a spot in the rankings actually was an accomplishment and those items remain exclusive to this day as they didn't repeat any rewards (though there were variations with different color schemes).

The one time SE actually did pull something like that quite understandably did cause an uproar. There were these earrings, the White Ravens, which were only obtainable from a special battle during FFXIV 1.x, and they had previously promised that those items would remain exclsuive to that. But then they re-released them for a seasonal event in ARR, and that meant that not only was the item no longer exclusive, but it could be obtained with zero effort during the event. It wasn't even a different item, it was the exact same item so there was no way to tell the item apart from the originals. And I think that's an important factor.

To me the aegist is fine because:
1) The Aegis was never exclusive in the first place, anyone who put the time/gil in could get one
2) The Aegist is clearly a replica, it isn't trying to pretend its the real thing
3) It is an item of its own and thus can be told apart from the real one
4) You can tell it apart even if it's lockstyled because they won't have the real one equipped

The reason people had a problem with the White Ravens in FFXIV isn't because they made a look-alike, it's because they actually distributed the original item that other people had to work hard to obtain from a difficult battle during the time the game was an utter dumpster fire and the new distribution required no effort whatsoever. If they had released an item that was clearly a copy i.e. it had a different name and/or different attributes, it wouldn't have been received so poorly.


SE did the right thing here by creating a new item with a new name that isn't functionally useful in any way other than to let you look cool (particularly if your job isn't PLD). Since it can be told apart from the original I have no problem with it whatsoever.

[Pixela]

Spicyryan is, it seems to be all he does lately.

[Alhanelem]

Spicyryan is, it seems to be all he does lately.

It's just with you. He's actually mocking you, it isn't even about being contrarian, he just doesn't like you and therefore is taking the time to call you out. I don't really care for you either, but I'm not petty and if you say something worthwhile I'm willing to acknowledge it.

[Pixela]

It's just with you. He's actually mocking you, it isn't even about being contrarian, he just doesn't like you and therefore is taking the time to call you out. I don't really care for you either, but I'm not petty and if you say something worthwhile I'm willing to acknowledge it.

No it's not, he posts the same stupid way on the official forums to everyone (and he only posts like this here). However I know he is extremely mad about me posting some facts about him elsewhere, which was funny.

Regardless I don't care if he likes me or not, or you for that matter as you're well aware (however I still respect your opinion enough to engage with the things you say). I stopped posting most places that relate to XI at this point becasue I'm pretty disheartened with the game currently, I only post here now because there is a minute chance the producer might see them.

[Immortal]

No it's not, he posts the same stupid way on the official forums to everyone (and he only posts like this here). However I know he is extremely mad about me posting some facts about him elsewhere, which was funny.

Regardless I don't care if he likes me or not, or you for that matter as you're well aware (however I still respect your opinion enough to engage with the things you say). I stopped posting most places that relate to XI at this point becasue I'm pretty disheartened with the game currently, I only post here now because there is a minute chance the producer might see them.

Completely agree with you, such a shame the whole situation but what can you do.

[Immortal]

It's a good thing none of us are doing that.


That ship sailed like a decade ago.

As others in this thread have already stated, relics haven't been considered an accomplishment for a long time, and it certainly seems like the playerbase has accepted that. The notion that the existence of this item is minimizing an accomplishment as you're suggesting with this comment is inaccurate at best.

When I started working towards Claustrum, there wasn't a single one in existence yet, while every other relic had at least one (With the next least popular being the axe I think). But today, making relics is fairly trivial (easy and not all that time consuming against a lot of other far more time consuming items in the game), and by the time I actually finished mine, several more dedicated people had made one just for the sake of making one. It wasn't really an accomplishment except maybe for the first person who actually did it. I've accepted that, and I think most people who have relics have accepted that. If they created this item 10 years ago, sure, I could maybe understand people being a little upset.

There are cases where you could make this argument, but I don't think the Agest is a good case study for this issue.

FFXIV used to have highly exclusive rewards for topping the rankings in PvP, and the people who actually played The Feast during this time were constantly annoyed at people begging SE to make these items available from other content because they didn't want to do PvP but wanted to have EVERYTHING. In this case, doing so WOULD be a minimzation of accomplishment because achieving a spot in the rankings actually was an accomplishment and those items remain exclusive to this day as they didn't repeat any rewards (though there were variations with different color schemes).

The one time SE actually did pull something like that quite understandably did cause an uproar. There were these earrings, the White Ravens, which were only obtainable from a special battle during FFXIV 1.x, and they had previously promised that those items would remain exclsuive to that. But then they re-released them for a seasonal event in ARR, and that meant that not only was the item no longer exclusive, but it could be obtained with zero effort during the event. It wasn't even a different item, it was the exact same item so there was no way to tell the item apart from the originals. And I think that's an important factor.

To me the aegist is fine because:
1) The Aegis was never exclusive in the first place, anyone who put the time/gil in could get one
2) The Aegist is clearly a replica, it isn't trying to pretend its the real thing
3) It is an item of its own and thus can be told apart from the real one
4) You can tell it apart even if it's lockstyled because they won't have the real one equipped

The reason people had a problem with the White Ravens in FFXIV isn't because they made a look-alike, it's because they actually distributed the original item that other people had to work hard to obtain from a difficult battle during the time the game was an utter dumpster fire and the new distribution required no effort whatsoever. If they had released an item that was clearly a copy i.e. it had a different name and/or different attributes, it wouldn't have been received so poorly.


SE did the right thing here by creating a new item with a new name that isn't functionally useful in any way other than to let you look cool (particularly if your job isn't PLD). Since it can be told apart from the original I have no problem with it whatsoever.

It was explained various times already. Where are you drawing the line to determine what you would consider ok to copy and paste with a smiley face? Relics don't take a lot of time or effort, but they have lore, history and its iconic with players. One of the biggest gripes those lv75 cap only players have is the irrelevance of items they once revered, this seems like another bullet in their favor.

Almost everything is trivial these days because a majority of the time gates were removed on literally everything and Gil is quite easy to come by too, in addition to everyone and their grandma multi boxing. The only long term thing these days is Ergon weapons due to the mandatory wait time and once you get one you get the other super easily/fast. The requirements for caring about something doesn't simply have to do with Gil or time requirement, it can be something iconic/historical in the game and still rub people the wrong way if you take that exact item and put a smiley face on it.

You say its not the exact same item but really it is, the face is different but most people are not going to tell from a distance. There are already people who don't recognize the current face, they won't know unless they examine the person. Really, what most are bothered by isnt the fact its in the game but the fact they choose to do stuff like this to devalue other iconic things and not care about their lore or longevity of their game. They should have brought new upgrades to these armors, not make lv1 vanity items but at this point we know how depressing the outlook for new stuff is.

[Immortal]

It's just with you. He's actually mocking you, it isn't even about being contrarian, he just doesn't like you and therefore is taking the time to call you out. I don't really care for you either, but I'm not petty and if you say something worthwhile I'm willing to acknowledge it.

He does it with me too, even going so far as to completely go off topic to drag random rumors and the past into it to attack people. I think you are siding with the wrong person, he doesn't even care about this game lately as he plays on private servers lol.

[Sp1cyryan]

Your act is so tired, just stop.

What act is this? While it has to be rather sanded around the edges for this board. It isn't like I am lying at any point.

[Alhanelem]

It was explained various times already. Where are you drawing the line to determine what you would consider ok to copy and paste with a smiley face?

The line is "can the real thing be told apart from the fake in any way?"

If the answer is yes, it's fine.

If you have an ageis and they have an aegist, we know who put in the effort to obtain an item and who spent their login points. Therefore in my opinion, it doesn't "minimize" your item, accomplishment, or investment, as you still have an aegis and they don't (unless of course, they have one of those too)

You say its not the exact same item but really it is, the face is different but most people are not going to tell from a distance.

This is irrelevant. It's not the exact same item because it's not the exact same item. It has a different name, different stats, they can be posessed at the same time, etc.

It is a different item obtained in a different way with different attributes. That is good enough for me. There is no gray area here.

It's kind of like having two copies of a poster, one signed by the artist on the back and one not. People tend to place different values on something that is autographed over something that isn't. The two posters may look the same, but they are treated differently by different people. The same applies here.

[Rinuko]

It precisely explains it. Because my post represents exactly why they said that.

"it's often hated [outside of certain games]"

I've never understand why people started calling their characters toons. It is not a synonym for any of the other words we'd use, a toon is *specifically* a character in a cartoon. That's how Tiny Toon Adventures got its name, because the characters on the show were called toons, and they actually called each other as such on the show. It is not like character, char (just shorthand), avatar, persona, identity, figure, etc.

Calling characters in this game "toons" makes it sound like they're... well, actually toons, i.e. characters in a cartoon. FFXI (and FFXIV) are not cartoonish like WoW or certain other MMOs are. So the term makes no sense. And that's why I, and most other people who call out the use of this term, don't like it.

I agree. I always said alts and mules back back in the day cause it was the slang everyone used back in the 75 days era.