Development Team Downsizing and Justification Makes no Sense

[SylphThor]

In the most recent Final Fantasy XI digest we were told that the current developers have been using 20-year-old software to produce new content. It was also mentioned that this sets the 'limit' to the Voracious Resurgence. The reasons for the downsizing given to us was because the devs are using 20-year-old development equipment and also they want to move onto other projects to expand their horizons.

What doesn't make sense is why not just purchase new development hardware/software? It doesn't have to be 'end of the line' equipment, or to the extent to make a remake, just to make the current devs (if they don't hire new ones) make better use of their time. One would assume that this would be more efficient than the dinosaur hardware and software they've been using. This would also give the current devs 'newer' software to learn, and expand their horizons (albeit on the same game). Additionally, they could always hire new developers to replace them who are already trained on said new hardware/software.

Given we are going to get the servers replaced with newer ones (because they are too old and might break), it makes me wonder why not do the same thing with the developer hardware and/or software, or at least some aspects of it?

In terms of financing such an endeavor, they could easily use the current 'cash cow' of 14 to fund this, much like they used the former 'cash cow' of 11, after they fail-bombed the original release of 14 and had to remake the entire game.

And I really believe at this point in time, the technology to do some sort of 'remake' at least in part to some systems would not longer be some sort of 'insurmountable' task like we've heard many times before. Spaghetti code or not, when you can teleport energy on the quantum level from one point in space time to another, it really makes you wonder if the original coding poses that much of a complication any longer?

[Voidstorm]

Agreed, the point about devs wanting to move games seems tone deaf as well.
This is because it doesn't mean the DEVs want to learn to make the newest games, it means the management plans to fire them if they don't.
The easiest thing in the world is just working on the same platform you're used to from hiring all the way to retirement.

Also in regard to a remake, yeah. This isn't just some random standalone MMO they released. It's a numbered FF game. One of Square's flagship titles. They NEED to make sure the game remains open just to show that their company isn't close to going belly up.

[Pixela]

Imagine you're in charge of XI, you have a limited budget (most of which goes on wages) and Square won't fund above and beyond what you currently get allocated.

What would you do if you wanted to keep it running, given also that the ps2 devkits recently broke?

>move most of the developers off the project for a while to save money on wages
>use that money to fund a new dev kit or dev kit emulator for pc from a 3rd party company
>developers come back when done

I dunno if this is what is happening, and they will never admit it if they are but it possible that is what they are upto.

[Sueno]

My guess would be: with the global recession coming they are trying to keep the devs they have. The more a dev knows; the more they can be shifted to other projects and not get laid off. It keeps them in house so they can be shifted back, and not have a learning curve, if they decide to ramp up another project in the future for XI. Also if they do decide to do a remake; the devs will have the knowledge of the new technology to better transfer what they know about the original to the new game. With the out of control pandemic spending most companies did in the last few years, they are scaling back and laying off the people they can do without. If you were one of these devs you would want the opportunity to learn more and make yourself more valuable to the company; instead of polishing off your resume.

[DoctooOkay]

As I recall they are severly limited due to the dev team needing PS2 dev kits, which have not been manufactured for a very long time, so there are vanishingly few PS2 kits around. Even when they cut over to PC only they weren't able to de-couple things like the PlayOnline launcher, which kept everything chained to hardware that was already at least 10 years old and becomming difficult to find.

Personally I think devs wanting to move on from this game is legit. Even when I've been working on projects that I love there is a point where I just want to move on to something new.

[Uriah]

Don't accept excuses. Any pc can be turned into a ps2 devkit.

They've been feeding you that nonsense for a decade because you don't know better. Like it's some magical device that can't ever be fixed or replicated. It's not.

[Alhanelem]

Don't accept excuses. Any pc can be turned into a ps2 devkit.

since you're claiming this, I'm assuming you've developed some PS2 software then?

If not, kindly stop posting, becuase you have no idea what you're talking about.


Far as the topic: There is nothing nonsensical about what they said. Their conclusions are rational and justified, and I can relate to them. I myself have been involved developmentally with one particular game for over a decade at this point. that game was developed on Unreal Engine 3 in its early days. Now Unreal Engine 5 is hitting the market. I've barely had any chance to learn the new stuff in UE4 and I don't really know a darn thing about UE5. This really hinders my prospects of getting a job even though I have extensive engine experience, some of which does still translate to newer iterations (I just don't know the NEW stuff). Because I'm STILL involved with that project, I'm still making UE3 content. It really is holding me back, but I'm doing it because that game still has an actiave community and they want new content.

For all the doomsday sayers: Frankly, this should have happened like 10 years ago, you shouldn't be surprised that it's happening, nor should you be upset. FFXI has had an amazing run and in spite of this, it is still not over. We will still be getting new features and updates. And while they're probably not doing it, there's still the possibility they could remaster it under a new engine, streamline some of the clunkiness, etc. etc. and get some pretty decent sales with it if they ever decide to do that.

FFXI is one of the longest running live-service games ever made, in a world today where such games are being shutdown left and right, FFXI is still going, and they're clearly committed to keeping it going.

[Uriah]

https://github.com/ps2dev/ps2dev

Main PS2 Repo for building the whole PS2 Development environment in your local machine.

This program will automatically build and install the whole compiler and other tools used in the creation of homebrew software for the Sony PlayStation® 2 videogame system.

[Alhanelem]

Okay, but really, the issue is less the hardware itself (There may be legal ramifications for them using something like that thing which I will ignore for the sake of argument) and more the software being dated. As he was explaining in the video, the option they had considered was new tools and middleware (e.g. specialized software that performs specific tasks on behalf of the game engine etc- FFXIV for example, uses a kind of middleware known as a wrapper to easliy enable the game to run on MacOS without having to rewrite the engine code to use calls to the Mac OS' graphics subsystems instead of the DirectX that is used by Windows- I think FFXI uses a wrapper for the PS2 graphics systems to work on PC, but I'm not pretending I know the details of how it works).

Making the PS2 dev environment run on a PC doesn't address the issues of continuing to devleop a game in 2023 using tools designed in 2003 or earlier.

[Uriah]

Uh huh. Here's your humble pie.