Development Team Downsizing and Justification Makes no Sense

[Catmato]

Abyssea and voidwatch were before that, and this was when a lot of people started quitting the game. No one knew when FFXIV was coming out at the time. Yes, development was in progress but I find it a stretch that anyone would think "oh, SE is making a new MMO, better quit FFXI now." Especially without really knowing what it is or what it would be like. And, as I said before, the cancellation of FFXIV had little impact on FFXI, which indicates that there wasn't some huge mass of players that quit XI for FFXIV because a lot of those players would likely have switched back after discovering how crap it was.

That last bit is certainly just a hypothesis, however it's logical and supported by the pattern of events at the time.


As far as the WE ARE VANADIEL site, I'm not referring to the same thing Pixela was.

Right but your statement:

it's absolutely ridiculous to imply that FFXI had to suffer for FFXIV to succeed.

Is absolutely not true if you take this into account :

Rather than pouring manpower and budget into reconstructing a world that players had already thoroughly experienced, we felt that those resources would be better spent creating a new game with its own world and adventures. (source)

Resources that COULD have gone into FFXI instead went into FFXIV. Yes, population was declining before FFXIV released, but the resources were certainly allocated years prior to that.

[Sirmarki]

Pixela's link to the We Are Vanadiel interview clearly says that they decided not to use budget and manpower for improving FFXI, but for a new game (FFXIV) instead. 2011,

True - but then we saw RoV and TVR and you can tell a lot of work went in to those.

[Alhanelem]

Resources that COULD have gone into FFXI instead went into FFXIV. Yes, population was declining before FFXIV released, but the resources were certainly allocated years prior to that.

I'm not disputing the fact that they focused their efforts on making their new game. That's nothing out of the ordinary. But this was all behind the scenes and could not have influenced player counts, as we were still getting regular new content at this point.


And it is absolutely true that FFXI did not have to suffer for FFXIV to succeed. that's just not the decision that Tanaka made. SE is and was a massive publicly traded company and they didn't HAVE to divert resources or even use the same team in any way to build a new game.

My argument was and is that FFXIV is a symptom, not the cause, of FFXI's decline. FFXIV did not make FFXI go into decline. FFXI was already declining when they decided to take the step of focusing their efforts on a new game. And until that game was announced and revealed to the public, the players had no way of knowing that development focus had shifted to a new project and therefore couldn't just up and decide to start quitting in droves with the expectation a new MMO was on the way. FFXIV began because they had felt (at the time) like they had gotten all the mileage they could out of FFXI.

[Catmato]

I'm not disputing the fact that they focused their efforts on making their new game. That's nothing out of the ordinary. But this was all behind the scenes and could not have influenced player counts, as we were still getting regular new content at this point.

I strongly disagree. Players don't have to know exactly what's going on behind the scenes to feel the impact of resource reallocations. I also strongly disagree with getting "regular" updates. Throughout much of the development of FFXIV, updates were anything but regular.

And it is absolutely true that FFXI did not have to suffer for FFXIV to succeed. that's just not the decision that Tanaka made. SE is and was a massive publicly traded company and they didn't HAVE to divert resources or even use the same team in any way to build a new game.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were musing about what actually happened instead of some theoretical situation where SE had good management and infinite money.

Edit: forgot a word

[Immortal]

I'm not disputing the fact that they focused their efforts on making their new game. That's nothing out of the ordinary. But this was all behind the scenes and could not have influenced player counts, as we were still getting regular new content at this point.


And it is absolutely true that FFXI did not have to suffer for FFXIV to succeed. that's just not the decision that Tanaka made. SE is and was a massive publicly traded company and they didn't HAVE to divert resources or even use the same team in any way to build a new game.

My argument was and is that FFXIV is a symptom, not the cause, of FFXI's decline. FFXIV did not make FFXI go into decline. FFXI was already declining when they decided to take the step of focusing their efforts on a new game. And until that game was announced and revealed to the public, the players had no way of knowing that development focus had shifted to a new project and therefore couldn't just up and decide to start quitting in droves with the expectation a new MMO was on the way. FFXIV began because they had felt (at the time) like they had gotten all the mileage they could out of FFXI.

My god you literally cannot admit you are wrong in any form. You were just called out as being WRONG, so take the damn L and move on. FFXI did suffer as a result of XIV, its been explained to you multiple times with evidence from the damn devs and producers themselves. If that isn't enough, nothing will be because anyone could easily see that just based on the fact they chose to advertise XIV over XI a million times over. XIV was the direct cause to XIs decline due to the severely limited budget and of course the resources being pulled meant less quality in all areas including advertisement and updates. The players knew this back then, when we went literally 8+ months without an update and rumors were already spreading about "Rapture"

[Alhanelem]

I strongly disagree. Players don't have to know exactly what's going on behind the scenes to feel the impact of resource reallocations.

So what exactly was going on at this time that would give you insight into the impact of resource reallocations? We were still getting large scale new contents at the time. I disagree with your notion that there was anything at all to give any indication to players (before the reveal of the new game) that focus was being shifted to a new project.

so take the damn L and move on.

This isn't a contest, there is no L to take. Opinions can't be wrong. "I"m not disputing..." the purported fact being presented doesn't affect my opinion. Still doesn't. Opinion. OPINION. o-p-n-i-o-n.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were musing about what actually happened instead of some theoretical situation where SE had good management and infinite money.

I never said SE had infintie money lol. Just that they have the resources to work on more than one project at a time without compromising either one. SE has multiple development studios and divisions. I think the only reason this decision was made was because they put the guy in charge of FFXI in charge of the new project. Why, I don't know, I can only suppose that it's because he had experience directing an MMO. In hindsight, that really didn't do them much good did it- since they basically ended up firing the team behind XIV 1.0 and forming a new one.

Anyway, my point remains the same: Everyone here is blaming FFXIV for everything that happened/is happening to FFXI, but the reality is FFXIV was a product of the state of FFXI- If FFXI had become the same big mega-hit as WoW did, I doubt they would have been considering a new project when they did. Opinion, of course, but you don't cast aside something that is doing well (unless you have no business sense...)

I can understand why people think and feel that way, considering the facts presented. But I maintain that FFXIV was a product of FFXI's declining popularity, rather than the cause of it.

[Immortal]

So what exactly was going on at this time that would give you insight into the impact of resource reallocations? We were still getting large scale new contents at the time. I disagree with your notion that there was anything at all to give any indication to players (before the reveal of the new game) that focus was being shifted to a new project.

8 months+ between updates during WOTG.... Surely nobody s aw it coming

Just that they have the resources to work on more than one project at a time without compromising either one. SE has multiple development studios and divisions. I think the only reason this decision was made was because they put the guy in charge of FFXI in charge of the new project. Why, I don't know, I can only suppose that it's because he had experience directing an MMO. In hindsight, that really didn't do them much good did it- since they basically ended up firing the team behind XIV 1.0 and forming a new one.

Yes but they essentially used almost all the same team and RESOURCES on the beginning of XIV 1.0.... You really think that had 0 impact on XI? The interview spells it out for you in plain letters.

Anyway, my point remains the same: Everyone here is blaming FFXIV for everything that happened/is happening to FFXI, but the reality is FFXIV was a product of the state of FFXI- If FFXI had become the same big mega-hit as WoW did, I doubt they would have been considering a new project when they did. Opinion, of course, but you don't cast aside something that is doing well (unless you have no business sense...)

I can understand why people think and feel that way, considering the facts presented. But I maintain that FFXIV was a product of FFXI's declining popularity, rather than the cause of it.

The game never had to be a WoW killer, if that was the case they would only copy popular games like candy crush and WoW going forward for any project they did. They've been shown to be really bad at business multiple times through multiple games and directions they've taken the company. They are just too prideful to back down in most cases...

[Catmato]

So what exactly was going on at this time that would give you insight into the impact of resource reallocations? We were still getting large scale new contents at the time. I disagree with your notion that there was anything at all to give any indication to players (before the reveal of the new game) that focus was being shifted to a new project.

What Draylo said. I just said players felt the impact of the focus shift; not that they necessarily knew what was causing the lack of content.

o-p-n-i-o-n.

opnion

I never said SE had infintie money lol.

I know you never said that; I was using hyperbole. You used the phrase "had to" in an abstract manner saying in the grand scheme, it wasn't required for FFXI to suffer in order for FFXIV to succeed. I thought you meant that it didn't, in fact, suffer, which is absolutely not based in this reality.

Anyway, my point remains the same: Everyone here is blaming FFXIV for everything that happened/is happening to FFXI...

I can understand why people think and feel that way, considering the facts presented. But I maintain that FFXIV was a product of FFXI's declining popularity, rather than the cause of it.

It can be both. FFXIV has been taking resources that could have been used for FFXI for well over half of FFXI's existence.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't blame FFXIV for anything; it's an inanimate game. I blame SE and Tanaka for pulling resources from FFXI at a time when they could have turned the metaphorical ship around. Whether that would have meant refactoring the code completely to get rid of the PS2 devkit dependency while they still employed the programmers who wrote it, just pulling their heads out of their asses and developing content that people could actually get excited for, or something else entirely.

I don't blame FFXIV, that's just where the pulled resources happened to go.

[Sp1cyryan]

The resources were leaving anyway. Have we not all grasped that simple fact? Let's not be grumpy fanatics.