WS distance or "where did my TP go?"

[Arcon]

Either my search skills suck or I am going crazy but I find it hard to believe this hasn't been mentioned before.

Losing TP on WS is just wrong. It's the reason why RNG were always bad team DDs, contrary to popular belief, because every WS they do they pull hate with and consequently make three other DDs lose their TP.

There's already a calculated risk for melees to lose their TP, it's called a miss. But losing TP cause you mistargeted in the heat of battle and selected a target that's miles away, that just doesn't make sense. No other spell, JA or any action is affected by this. Would love to see that addressed.

[Gropitou]

Either you're close enough and the WS goes off (using TP) or you're out of range and then nothing happens (no TP loss). Enough with this stupidity, fix this.

[Tamarsamar]

TP loss upon being just slightly too far away is one of the most annoying feelings you can get from this game. Why the heck does this "feature" still even exist?!

[Randwolf]

I find it annoying also.

However, because there is supposed to be some skill involved in the game:

1) Distance estimates are part of the challenge
2) Hate control and player communication is supposed to be an element of the game. Meaning the Ranger needs to talk to the party members as well as calculate if they are going to generate enough enmity to pull the mob to them.

If you lost your TP, it means you attempted to do something that wasn't possible because of a miscalculation, either distance or someone pulls the mob away. You'll also notice that a WS will hit at a slightly larger range than a regular melee hit. Thieves are probably the ones who notice this the most. Since, usually there is another body between you and the enemy. I will be standing behind the tank getting the message the mob is out of range. But, then WS and hit the mob.

Guessing you guys aren't long-time players. This doesn't happen that often to veterans. And, when it does, it's clear why it happened. It's just a part of getting better at the game. And, one of the few skills that is required to melee.

[Swords]

You know you can ultimately fix this issue by positioning yourself around the mob, where your backside it twoards the RNG (Not neccessairly between the mob and the RNG for Conal AoE Issues).

Rng pulls hate, mob moves, says you cannot see target, WS does'nt go off, no TP lost, have a cookie.

I would not want to change the current system away from this, because it works on the mobs too making kiting situations safer and more viable.

[Arcon]

The RNG was just one example. And yes, it can be avoided, and yes, if you use it it's (to some degree) your fault. That doesn't mean it's in any way good or challenge or shouldn't be replaced.

I do consider myself a veteran, and I never said it happens a lot, but when it does it's really frustrating. It just makes no sense and I believe it's an oversight in the game dynamic, akin to the paralyze issue. It spends your TP before the WS happens. However, it spends TP before the WS check happens as well. And that is different to every other similar game mechanic:

Here's a list of similar actions and the steps in their execution:
TP consumption > WS check > WS effect
Spell check > MP consumption > Spell effect
JA check > JA recast > JA effect
(Ranged) Attack check > Delay activation > (Ranged) Attack
Item check > Item consumption > Item effect

As you can see, WS is the only one that doesn't follow the pattern. And considering it makes little to no sense, I doubt this was done intentionally.

[Tamarsamar]

I would not want to change the current system away from this, because it works on the mobs too making kiting situations safer and more viable.

I hadn't considered this, but this is a very good point! It takes lots of skill to pull a fast one on the mob like that, and I don't think that that particular aspect of the game should be so ruined. ^^

[Arcon]

I hadn't considered this, but this is a very good point! It takes lots of skill to pull a fast one on the mob like that, and I don't think that that particular aspect of the game should be so ruined. ^^

Apples and oranges. Kiting won't be affected much by this, one could even argue that it would make kiting easier. You could still outrun moves the same as before, I didn't say the move should go through. I'm just saying you shouldn't lose TP because of it. And so what if the mob doesn't lose TP? It won't use the move again right away, because you'll probably be out of range anyway. And even if it did, it would just waste even more time while being kited, making it easier to cut corners.

[Kavik]

I have been playing for 7 years and this is irritating in certain situations when hate is bouncing around like no tomorrow, in which case i usually just hit disengage and stand there while people die, i detest people that pull hate and then run it around "i'm gona die i'm gonna die and taking it 5 feet out of range is going to help me, especially by running out of range of the mages who can save my dumb ass!" Yeah.... been there too much, anyway, by general rule i don't think it needs something that needs that much attention. To the person that posted about attempting to ws on something 'miles' away, this isn't true. There is a distance that you will lose tp if you attempt to ws on the mob from, but beyond that it will say "the monster is out of range" and you will not lose tp, just like a spell not going off if the mob runs out of range.

[Malamasala]

I think the most annoying part is for ranged WSes, where you try a long distance and notice that, yes, you were slightly too far away and lost all TP.