December 2022 FINAL FANTASY XI Digest

[Alhanelem]

So, it was a good update. Cool.

It's a good update if the roulette wheel of jobs SE doesn't want you to play for this content didn't land on yours.

That is all your opinion, they are all viable ways to balance content. SE decided what they want for their game, have to deal with it.

The forum lost a bunch of text I wrote here. But yeah. it's my opinion, and it's the opinion of anyone irritated at their job being excluded because SE said so rather than because of anything a monster did to counter the player's actions.

Monster uses an ability or undergoes a state change by a % of HP or similar to weaken XYZ attacks/abilities? Fine.
Ability or attack artifically nerfed in the content independent of the monster itself? Not fine.

I don't mind content being made easier or harder for different jobs *based on the monster's behavior." I do mind a decree by the almighty gods that says "these jobs cant be used effectively because we said so." This isn't me crying about my particular job(s) not being great for a fight, this is about the artificial and illogical manner in which this was done.

[Zenion]

It's a good update if the roulette wheel of jobs SE doesn't want you to play for this content didn't land on yours.


The forum lost a bunch of text I wrote here. But yeah. it's my opinion, and it's the opinion of anyone irritated at their job being excluded because SE said so rather than because of anything a monster did to counter the player's actions.

Monster uses an ability or undergoes a state change by a % of HP or similar to weaken XYZ attacks/abilities? Fine.
Ability or attack artifically nerfed in the content independent of the monster itself? Not fine.

I don't mind content being made easier or harder for different jobs *based on the monster's behavior." I do mind a decree by the almighty gods that says "these jobs cant be used effectively because we said so." This isn't me crying about my particular job(s) not being great for a fight, this is about the artificial and illogical manner in which this was done.

I, for one, am delighted by the weaponskill wall. Listening to my melee-playing friends saying the same things I've had to say as a summoner was a delight.

When every job is nerfed, none will be. Healing wall when?

[Sp1cyryan]

It's a good update if the roulette wheel of jobs SE doesn't want you to play for this content didn't land on yours.


The forum lost a bunch of text I wrote here. But yeah. it's my opinion, and it's the opinion of anyone irritated at their job being excluded because SE said so rather than because of anything a monster did to counter the player's actions.

Monster uses an ability or undergoes a state change by a % of HP or similar to weaken XYZ attacks/abilities? Fine.
Ability or attack artifically nerfed in the content independent of the monster itself? Not fine.

I don't mind content being made easier or harder for different jobs *based on the monster's behavior." I do mind a decree by the almighty gods that says "these jobs cant be used effectively because we said so." This isn't me crying about my particular job(s) not being great for a fight, this is about the artificial and illogical manner in which this was done.

Time to be more flexible in the jobs you can offer a group or settle for R25 augments.

[Alhanelem]

Time to be more flexible in the jobs you can offer a group or settle for R25 augments.

No, it's not. (And I don't even care about the augments or Odyssey all that much in the first place- I know there are reasons why I probably should, but it's not a priority for me right now)

This isn't about jobs being better than others for a content. It's about artificual restrictions that make no logical sense beyond "we said so." Battle mechanics should be rooted in rationality and logic.

Even saying that, the "rlexibility" you demand isn't something that should be demanded by the player. Skill strategy and logic (and a little creativity) are what should matter.

The point here is that these "mechanics" amount to little more than "we don't want these jobs, so we'll just make it so they can't do anything in a really artificial and unfun way."
Examples of proper mechanics:
- Many monsters cast silence or use Amnesia. One creates a hassle for casters, the other creats a hassle for ws/ability dependent jobs. These are spells and effects that have long esisted in the FF universe, it makes sense that monsters can use them, and they make certain jobs more or less ideal than others
- Many monsters have AoE effects centered around themselves. This means it is dangerous to be close to the monster for long, which favors casters. Then there are similar mechanics that target casters.
- Many monsters are associated with a particular element, use magic of that element, and/or absorb or are immune to damage from those sources. These make sense and complicate the role of a magic damage dealer.
- Many monsters mimic certain jobs and have their mechanics, which often create problems for specific other jobs.

All of these things are natural, logical things you expect from enemies in this game. They all make some jobs more or less preferred than others. But these mechanics make sense and players build teams around them.

The mechanics they've been using to "balance" jobs lately are nothing of the sort. They're highly gimmicky and make no sense beyond "we said so." They're not fun, arbitrarily restrict job selection in an unintuitive way (no way to know other than being told/looking it up). And historically, while some jobs are better than others for many fights, players can often apply many strategies and find creative solutions that can allow

If the only option is "use this one comp SE came up with or GTFO" that's bad game and content design. And if all jobs can gain from a given content, it should be *possible*, even if its not ideal, to do it with all jobs. Content that rewards stuff for specific jobs should be completeable with those jobs in the party.

In the case of these fights: If they go into a "mode" where you can't use or do certain things, like many exisiting contents already have, that's fine. You can play around that and maybe it will take longer but you can still do it with whoever you can gather up. I'm only against permanent "wall" mechanics that are applied across a content. You don't need these kinds of arbitrary restrictions to create challenging content.

And if/when I do get around to doing Odyssey stuff, I'll prove you wrong anyway and get all the R30s I need/want on the jobs I can play.

[Sp1cyryan]

That's a lot words for someone who hasn't "gotten around to doing Odyssey stuff".

At the end of the day the playerbase has shown it must be forced to do certain things. They can kick and scream and whine all they want, but it only goes to show how necessary it is.

I don't care how elegant or not the Nuke Wall or WS Wall or Blood Pact Wall are. They are necessary for certain content anymore. The alternative is a rework of the mechanics and formulas in this game, and that is never happening 20 years in. Devs are working with what they have and what the playerbase keeps doing. That is it, and it is needed regardless of the lack of being refined.

[Alhanelem]

At the end of the day the playerbase has shown it must be forced to do certain things.

When and where exactly did they show this?

Your opinion is not a fact, it's an opinion. No one needs to be "forced" to do anything. If you do, that's just another sign of bad game design, as the best/intended way of doing something should always come naturally, not be "forced." Particularly if it's just the way you think a battle should go, rather than what was obviously intended by the developers. These "walls" are a bad solution to balance problems, if the devs think a job is too strong they should fix that problem, not just build a "wall" into content to prevent the use of that job (or role, as the case may be). If the only way to steer players away from a certain battle strategy is to throw up a wall to cripple it, they need to re-evaluate how they are balancing things.

As for the "lot of words" bit, these "lots of words" apply generally to the game, I don't need to spend hours and hours in Odysseey to be able to comment.

[jasnekholin]

thank you SE for the quick response to the WS wall, some may have liked the additional challenge but i think it was the right call.

[Uriah]

If only you gave the minimum effort to actually make sure things worked as intended before you just throw them out there. Shameful. Just a constant embarrassment.

[Sp1cyryan]

When and where exactly did they show this?

Your opinion is not a fact, it's an opinion. No one needs to be "forced" to do anything. If you do, that's just another sign of bad game design, as the best/intended way of doing something should always come naturally, not be "forced." Particularly if it's just the way you think a battle should go, rather than what was obviously intended by the developers. These "walls" are a bad solution to balance problems, if the devs think a job is too strong they should fix that problem, not just build a "wall" into content to prevent the use of that job (or role, as the case may be). If the only way to steer players away from a certain battle strategy is to throw up a wall to cripple it, they need to re-evaluate how they are balancing things.

As for the "lot of words" bit, these "lots of words" apply generally to the game, I don't need to spend hours and hours in Odysseey to be able to comment.

They do need to be forced at this point, and the Devs clearly agreed.

[Immortal]

Um have you never played a final fantasy game? They love to force specific strategies... thats their means of balance and how they want you to play. How many times we fight bosses that absorb x and y or that take no magic damage