Add a super rare cosmetic armor drop to Sortie.

[Sp1cyryan]

I know XIV players that are quitting because they login and have nothing to work on, I don't want that to be the case for XI.

For XIV I can understand why it's the case, for XI it's a hardcore MMO.

You can do all of the things above, you can have REMA, MLev etc and still add super rare drops from content.

I spammed the ever loving crap out of lilith, then I capped and I haven't done it since. If they added +1 Malignance armor, I would do it again.

Good for them. 14 has little to no substance is why. It doesn't matter what goes on there though as it is not a template for 11.

[Alhanelem]

14 has little to no substance is why.

Highly subjective and I disagree. Which isn't to say it doesn't have flaws, but "lack of substance" isn't one of them.

[Pixela]

FF14 started off as a serious mmorpg, but they then noticed the kind of audience they had and started turning it into a second life knockoff.

Which is working out well for them, cause they need to buy all those outfits to post the gpose screenshots on twitter.

[Alhanelem]

but they then noticed the kind of audience they had and started turning it into a second life knockoff.

I don't think it's the game doing it at all. There is a segment of the playerbase that does this, but they're just a highly visible minority.

The main endgame on XIV is buying outfits from the cash shop.

This is one of the silliest things you've ever said. "Glamour is the true endgame" != "The true endgame is buying things from the cash shop."

There's tons of glamor in game, no cash shop needed, that you have to earn and work for and a lot of it is very rare stuff. The cash shop mostly offers old seasonal items and NPC cosplays.

But this isn't about comparing FFXI and FFXIV, it's refuting your argument that stupidly rare stuff drives activity in MMOs. You made that as a general statement, not just for FFXI. Thus I can refer to other games to prove that you're wrong. Grinding is just as much a driving force in player retention as rare stuff, and likely more so.

[Pixela]

FFXIV and ARR started as a proper MMORPG trying to copy WoW.

As the years rolled on, more and more people from the Second Life / Sims community moved into the game and more and more casual players that hate mmorpgs started joining it. Since they needed the game to be a success they leaned into this hard, cause these people buy outfits, animations, pets, mounts etc (btw wow is leaning into this too now, for the same reasons) The cash shop on ff14 is ridiculous now, and the players LOVE it.

Now I would say the majority of people who play XIV are this kind of casual / second life enjoyer type of player and there are far less raider / grinder / dungeon enjoyers in the community.

The main passtime is standing around Limsa, gambling, buying new dances and animations, decorating your house, going to weird dance shows in each others basements, taking pictures of your characters with Gpose for twitter, weird modding, buying outfits, rp etc. Lots of people are paying a sub to do this, not the actual mmorpg content, they never leave the cities.

XIV has far more in common now with Second life than wow or ffxi, the main drive for the game is appealing to these kinds of people. They even actively dumb the game down and make everything have high drops rates to try allow these people to do some dungeon content. The game is also moderated at a level that would make twitter blush, again because that's what these hyper casuals want. You say it's a vocal minority, I say it's the active majority.

XIV is as close to a metaverse as anyone has gotten so far, because so many people just login to live their online life in the game and stand around dancing or whatever..instead of logging in to grind out weapons or stuff.

BTW I don't think there is anything wrong with what XIV is doing, it works and is profitable but pretending it's not this is laughable.

[Sp1cyryan]

You lost me at "proper MMORPG trying to copy WoW."

[Alhanelem]

crap I'm really not going to waste time addressing directly

Look man, this is all mostly irrelevant. You are here insisting that everyone wants to chase 0.001% drop rate items. I'm here to tell you it takes a special kind of masochist to want that. Most people don't want that, they get far more out of distant yet attainable goals to keep them playing. If there is one running theme in complaints about FFXI over the years, it's people moaning about (*#&$ drop rates. No one wants #*&$# drop rates. Except maybe you. All I did was refer to other MMOs as examples of rare drops not being a big motivating factor.

[Pixela]

A lot of people do want it here, even if they say they don't.

[Alhanelem]

A lot of people do want it here, even if they say they don't.

No. Don't do that, you can't do that. If people say they don't want something, they don't want something.

[Pixela]

Many serious XI players are goal orientated, when there are no goals they have no reason to play anymore.

People will complain about goals being long winded or annoying, but when they have no goals they will be far more upset because there is no longer anything to do to keep them tethered to the game.

The saying goes "the only thing worse than not getting what you want, is getting it" and I experienced this and I didn't like it, because it literally lead to me quitting.

I and people like me need the carrot on the stick, we will complain about how annoying it is to get to the carrot but once the carrot is gone our drive to move forward goes with it.