[dev1010] Spirits

[Soundwave]

So you get away, the spirit dies while you are in mid cast....the monster is trucking to you you start to cast another avatar or maybe "another spirit" due to the fact that you didn't get far enough or w/e spell u just casted took a bit. Your gonna create that hate again while summoning near a mob.

You are going to have a very ugly fight plain and simple you must be living in a perfect world where no mistakes occur.

[Ophiuchus]

Back when 75 was the level cap I actually used spirits for quite a great deal. With 5/5 elemental perp cost merits I found spirits at that time to actually be better then carby or other avatars for the long pet kiting solos. With the right equipment, sublimation from /sch, and even non-weather/day matching elemental siphons I could keep the spirits out indefinite. In those situations, though their damage was less than avatars, their mp cost per damage dealt was much more efficient esp if you used spirits that either only nuke or cast 1 enfeeb(thunder and fire spirits).

In addition it was much better in longer solo fights to use spirits because the action of spirits casting spells adds absolutely zero hate to the player, as opposed to issuing a BP command with an avatar which generates a minimal value of hate but hate none the less.

Back when the cap was raised to 80 I remember reaching 80 and taking the earth spirit out, since they added stone V, and was disappointed when I saw it start to cast stone IV. In my irritation I immediately called gm to report it as I saw it as a bug since previously spirits got the same level spells as their BLM counterparts. The gm told me that the situation was nothing that wasn't already known, and was "working as intended." And from that point I /shutdown'd and quit the game for the rest of the summer >.>.

I'd definitely be down for an update so spirits, even if just adding the recent tier V(or VI for cure) spells to them.

[Alhanelem]

In Soundwave's example, the spirit was not sufficient to resolve the emergency.

Uh, yes it is. Unless that mob runs at flee speed, you can find the nearest zone.

With 5/5 elemental perp cost merits

Except that this is a massive waste compared to anything else you could spend the merits on (that's what they should cost in the first place...). All the other merits increase effectiveness. This one just reduces MP cost. Aside form the fact that the spirits casting spells are massively inferior to anyone or anything else casting the same spell.

[Malamasala]

Except that this is a massive waste compared to anything else you could spend the merits on (that's what they should cost in the first place...). All the other merits increase effectiveness. This one just reduces MP cost. Aside form the fact that the spirits casting spells are massively inferior to anyone or anything else casting the same spell.

Uhm, you couldn't be more wrong.

Pet attack does nothing. 5 merits in it will roughly give you 5 more damage on your BP:Rage. It is so useless that you'd only pick it if there was nothing else to pick.

Pet accuracy does nothing for BP:Rages if you got enough skill over cap. At that point it only helps pet melee, and I don't know how much 15 accuracy helps that, but I have never seen any melee jobs stop at +15 accuracy and say that now they'll eat meat.

Pet magic accuracy does nothing as well. I've had merits in it, and my spells were as resisted as always. Summoning over skill helps more, and again is the way to go.

That leaves pet MAB, as a good investment for 5 merits. And your last 5 merits can either be wasted on the above 3 useless choices, or invested in spirit perpetuation. I went with spirit perpetuation since it actually lets you use them more freely than before. (Even if you can hardly use them at all)

Back when 75 was the level cap I actually used spirits for quite a great deal. With 5/5 elemental perp cost merits I found spirits at that time to actually be better then carby or other avatars for the long pet kiting solos.

I don't know what you were fighting, but I dozens of bad memories from sicing my spirit on a EM mob, just to have it interrupt every single spell that was attempted to be cast. With skill past the cap I may add. It seems to me the only monsters you can use spirits on, are casters, since they stop meleeing your pet to cast spells and allow your pet to cast a spell back.

It is a bit unfair that you can hit an elemental 20 times and not interrupt them, but a EM mob can just hit your spirit once and ruin your spell.

Alhanelem. I'd like to point out a typical scenario that spirits also can't save you from.

You are in a group of aggro monsters, and one accidentally aggro you while recasting sneak. You toss up spirit to save you, and you are saved. Now you cast sneak to keep walking.... BAM. Monster is on you due to hate from sneak spell. At this case your only savior is if your spirit decided to cast tier IV, else you are going to die.

I will add that I've never survived getting aggro in a group of aggro monsters just because of this. I only survive if it is a single aggro monster that I can run safely from and then start killing it or zone.

[Dallas]

Uh, yes it is. Unless that mob runs at flee speed, you can find the nearest zone.

Not if you are near dead and there are undead in the zone. Surely someone like you can appreciate that exceptions exist. You seem to thrive on that kind of logic.

[Korpg]

Not if you are near dead and there are undead in the zone. Surely someone like you can appreciate that exceptions exist. You seem to thrive on that kind of logic.

So what do you suggest, oh master of everything SMN?

[Korpg]

Back when 75 was the level cap I actually used spirits for quite a great deal. With 5/5 elemental perp cost merits I found spirits at that time to actually be better then carby or other avatars for the long pet kiting solos. With the right equipment, sublimation from /sch, and even non-weather/day matching elemental siphons I could keep the spirits out indefinite. In those situations, though their damage was less than avatars, their mp cost per damage dealt was much more efficient esp if you used spirits that either only nuke or cast 1 enfeeb(thunder and fire spirits).

In addition it was much better in longer solo fights to use spirits because the action of spirits casting spells adds absolutely zero hate to the player, as opposed to issuing a BP command with an avatar which generates a minimal value of hate but hate none the less.

Back when the cap was raised to 80 I remember reaching 80 and taking the earth spirit out, since they added stone V, and was disappointed when I saw it start to cast stone IV. In my irritation I immediately called gm to report it as I saw it as a bug since previously spirits got the same level spells as their BLM counterparts. The gm told me that the situation was nothing that wasn't already known, and was "working as intended." And from that point I /shutdown'd and quit the game for the rest of the summer >.>.

I'd definitely be down for an update so spirits, even if just adding the recent tier V(or VI for cure) spells to them.

You have a very...."interesting"....way of spending 5 Group 1 SMN merits.

Please enlighten us why you think making the cost of spirits the same as level 75 Avatars was a good idea and more useful than Carbuncle when he was one of the only 4 Avatars you could get for free at the time.

I mean, sure, you could siphon the mp cost away every 5 minutes, but why do you argue *in another post* that physical/magical attack merits are "worthless?"

[Alhanelem]

any stat bonus, no matter how trivial > lowering MP cost of spirits. Spirits are garbage, no matter what. Making them cheaper doesn't make them better.

Uhm, you couldn't be more wrong.

You're the one who couldnt be more wrong. You're right that avatar attack merits don't do much. Avatar accuracy, on the other hand, does a lot more, as does Avatar Magic Attack, which has a MAJOR effect and summoning skill has no effect here. However, any stat bonus, no matter how trivial > lowering MP cost of spirits. Spirits are garbage, no matter what. Making them cheaper doesn't make them better.

Pet magic accuracy does nothing as well. I've had merits in it, and my spells were as resisted as always. Summoning over skill helps more, and again is the way to go.

you're doing something wrong. I had a horrible land rate for Thunderstorm against Einherjar Odin; After meriting magic accuracy, they were landing significantly more. Summoning skill is icing on the cake, not a substitute. You should have both, especially given that 3 magic accuracy is pretty clearly > 1 skill over cap.

any stat bonus, no matter how trivial > lowering MP cost of spirits. Spirits are garbage, no matter what. Making them cheaper certainly doesn't make them better.

I'll keep saying that until you realize it.

[Korpg]

With gear, you can overcome the 5 merits needed for physical/magical accuracy to make avatars a lot more effective than before.

Which makes Att/M.Att merits much much much more useful.

[Alhanelem]

With gear, you can overcome the 5 merits needed for physical/magical accuracy to make avatars a lot more effective than before.

Which makes Att/M.Att merits much much much more useful.

Agreed, acc is much less important than it used to be. But the fact still remains that any other group 1 merit > spirit perp cost.