[dev1010] Spirits

[Soundwave]

Another tool in the bag for smn...spirit update would be nice but can't be to nice or we gonna start using spirits instead of avatars hmmmm. (I'm sure that wont happen but food for thought.) Allowing more control over spirits just for abessya proc yellow but meh...it is a idea

I rather see spirits deleted from the Smn and use Ele Siphon on avatars >.>

Spirits don't need adjusting. Avatars are supposed to be the mainstay of a summoner. Spirits are able to do two things and do these things well:
-Give you MP with elemental siphon
-Cast very quickly to enable you to get a monster off your arse

1st true 2nd kinda meh, only because you cannnn get it off your butt, however you're gonna have a bit of hate just from casting the spirit, and that hate is very boarder line if soloing and even using + Enmity gear for pets....this really depends on the mob really...so its debatable.

[Karbuncle]

I dunno, Spirits aren't designed to be better than Avatars for Sure. Nothing they can do to Spirits better than Avatars.

however, They're still a part of the job, It would be nice if they weren't just forgotten relics useful for only 1 Job Ability. Maybe Give spirits their new spells. Reduce their Perp cost a little.

The way i always looked at spirits were "Man made" Avatars (Hence They're buyable/spells), So my reasoning for them being higher MP Cost is that making a Spirit/Spell would be rougher than a mutual pact with an Avatar (Hence Avatars = less MP cost)

however theres another side, Avatars are much stronger, logic stands they'd be harder to maintain. So its a toss up. I think Spirits Should cost half of what they do now. Change "Spirit Per Cost" Merits to "Spirit Spell Casting time" merits. No one will merit it still but it would be nice.

Really, its obvious Spirits will never be better than avatars, But I'd like if they weren't just tossed aside and forgotten.

However, If I had to chose between a buff in Avatars, and a buff in spirits, I'd chose avatars :|

[Soundwave]

Really, its obvious Spirits will never be better than avatars, But I'd like if they weren't just tossed aside and forgotten.

However, If I had to chose between a buff in Avatars, and a buff in spirits, I'd chose avatars :|

Ya I agree, was just tossing it around.....that would be another day.....FFXI stood still....

[Krisan]

Spirits don't need adjusting. Avatars are supposed to be the mainstay of a summoner. Spirits are able to do two things and do these things well:
-Give you MP with elemental siphon
-Cast very quickly to enable you to get a monster off your arse

I don't understand why people want "good" spirits so badly. They shouldn't be better than the avatars, they're just generic elementals. Outside of the uses described above, the only reason the exist is that so people who didn't get the zilart expansion would have more than one spell (carbuncle) in their spell list, as Summoner does not require zilart but all of the avatars require zilart or a later expansion.

Oh, small note about banish: Light spirit actually had Banish III before WHM was able to learn it, as well. But outside of this oddity, the spirits are not learning new spells, and almost seem as if they're level capped at 75, as they take more damage too. It might be a sign of tier II elementals.

No one wants them better than Avatars, I don't think. They just want them to be practical in their use.. In all my days, I have never used an Spirits to "get something off of me" like you mention - it simply doesn't work that way. Just summoning one generates sizable hate, which is bad enough, but Spirits are also prone to not reacting the way you want them to, sometimes doing the complete opposite thing you need of them. They also aren't particularly good tanks either, so I'm not sure where you're getting this from. The extremely high perp costs also makes it so that in a real emergency, where you're probably low on MP.. you're going to likely lose the spirit remarkably fast. At the absolute most, it can be used as a distraction for a couple of seconds so you can run away, which is a complete and utter disgrace if you consider that as the only thing they should ever be good for.

Likewise, we didn't always have siphon, so I again don't know what these things were meant to be good for prior to that skill being implemented.. The spirits seem wholly worthless in every other regard than using Siphon.

However, If I had to chose between a buff in Avatars, and a buff in spirits, I'd chose avatars :|

I don't see why we don't deserve both, really. SMN is such a ridiculously high MP costing job, and we really don't do much of anything that everyone else can't already do (and better). We at least had some advantages with buffs for awhile, but SCH pretty much replaced us entirely in that regard when they were introduced. We can potentially deal some good damage, but it seems unreliable compared to every other job just how much damage we're doing. And besides being tied down by our exorbitantly high MP costs (outside of Abyssea, anyway.. this doesn't matter to anyone in Abyssea anymore) we're also crippled to what we can do by our recast timers..

SMN as a whole never seemed as though it was designed especially well, they had interesting ideas for it but it never panned out in such a way that made it extremely useful. It was nice when we got auras awhile back so that we could refresh a whole party or what not, but the fact those auras crippled the Avatar's usability and promoted doing nothing so that you'd get the most out of the buff is just an insult if you ask me, really.

[Andylynn]

I fail to see how this is 'emergency maint' important... spirits are unnecessary, they don't need a buff, adjustment, whatever. Use your avatars, theyre beastly as it is.

[Krisan]

I fail to see how this is 'emergency maint' important... spirits are unnecessary, they don't need a buff, adjustment, whatever. Use your avatars, theyre beastly as it is.

You don't see a problem with a job having a set of skills\spells that are more or less wholly worthless? Siphon isn't a good enough excuse for their use, they existed long before Siphon did and so that obviously isn't what they were solely designed for.

[Andylynn]

You don't see a problem with a job having a set of skills\spells that are more or less wholly worthless? Siphon isn't a good enough excuse for their use, they existed long before Siphon did and so that obviously isn't what they were solely designed for.

Yes, I don't see a problem with it, every job has skills/ws that have really no use at all, and you dont see us crying bloody murder. (cough breaker skills like hamanoha, ancient circle etc.)

[Krisan]

Yes, I don't see a problem with it, every job has skills/ws that have really no use at all, and you dont see us crying bloody murder. (cough breaker skills like hamanoha, ancient circle etc.)

I personally don't think any job should have completely worthless skills, and I don't see the logic in supporting their existence. Why have them there at all if they're worthless? Remove them entirely if they're so pointless, either that or rework them so they're not, that's the intelligent way of handling things. Leaving something there that's broken or inherently useless is just plain stupid.

[Airget]

Hm off the top of my head, make Spirits a Support like ability. Let's say the Summoner can summon a spirit and synchronize it with a player, with that Synchronization in effect they gain access to a list of spells that they can only use on that player to enhance them.

Example:
Fire Spirit
Infused Stat Boost:
STR+10
ATT+50
Crit Hit Bonus +5
Fire Resist +50
Water Resist -100
Spirit Stress 0/50
Base Perp Cost: 15/tick
"Spirit Stress based on summoner's skill the average tic is 1 every 3 mins with lower skill it's more but once the limit is reached the user receives "Spirit Fatigue" and is unable to synchronize with a spirit for a set amount of time. The effect also doesn't wear off if you die or change jobs."


--Spells you can cast on the target--
Fire Rage "Increase STR" (.5 Stress Based increasing by .1 every cast) EX. 2 cast would add 1.1 Stress MP cost: 20 Perp. +1
Flame Shield "Increase Fire Resist" (.5 Stress with .1 Every cast) MP Cost: 20, Perp. +1
Fire Conjure "Add Flare to targets spell list" (10 Stress) MP Cost: 200, Perp. +10
Melt "Increase damage against Ice based foes" (5 Stress) MP Cost: 100, Perp +5
Fire Boost "Increase Fire Based dmg, including SC" (5 Stress) MP Cost: 75 Perp +3

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It's just an idea that could add flavor to a SMN, while it would be impossible to give full control of a spirit because of BLM and others jobs that may find it unfair to be able to control the actual actions of the spirit. If one were to tailor spirits to act as a vessel to enhance other players it could work. By putting the proper limitations on it while it wouldn't become something to overshadow another job but an opportunity to create and flourish more strategies.

With the idea on hand while it would be possible to infuse spirits on 5 players at once one will have to take into account the perp cost.
By casting 5 spirits you would be at 75/tick of MP loss if you consider the idea of trying to focus 5 elements on 5 different targets, then on top of that trying to enhance them would add even more stress to the user. Basically I was trying to think of something that would sound like something a Summoner would have the ability to do, and the idea of them being able to enhance other players through spirits does sound like something they should be able to do lol.

--Hm the perp cost is prollya tad costly based on the actual amount of MP a user has access to so maybe the base perp can be 5 and slowly increasing based on the spells the user adds to the target lol.

[DerianX]

I would guess that the only reason they even exist is because avatars used to be difficult to acquire. SE probably felt that summoners should have something readily available other than Carbuncle back when Zilart first came out.

I must say though, that I've always found it odd that they have such a high perpetuation cost.