[dev1010] Spirits

[Dallas]

So what do you suggest, oh master of everything SMN?

Read the posts that already exist and stop embarassing yourself.

[Korpg]

Read the posts that already exist and stop embarassing yourself.

Guess the concept of sarcasm is beyond your degree of thinking.

All I seen you suggest is your opinion of spirits not being effective for running away from a mob you need to zone.

I'm surprised you haven't suggested to melee the mob as a SMN yet.

Also surprised to see you haven't called everyone gimp for not having an Emp staff either.

[Soundwave]

Uh, yes it is. Unless that mob runs at flee speed, you can find the nearest zone.

Oh so now we are zoning instead of understand the issue at hand, nice. But I know you wont agree which is cool, It's just that I know there are issue when summing a spirit when the mob has a chance to get near you and cause a issue. Please realize that not everybody lives in this perfect world you have created for yourself.

I'm surprised you haven't suggested to melee the mob as a SMN yet.

That's not fair! We haven't really stated what we are fighting anyways, but I would assume everybody think we are dealing with a type of NM when soloing not a normal mob.

[GlobalVariable]

As long as the actions of the spirits are random, these will forever be used only as a battery. Should just rename the scrolls to "duracell pact: element"...

[Alhanelem]

I'm surprised you haven't suggested to melee the mob as a SMN yet.

I wasn't going to comment again, but this did it for me. You say this as if it's something that should be seen as taboo or not allowed. If you've invested the time in it and gotten appropriate gear, it's not just possible, it's very strong.

//I have the empyrean staff- and full merits in staff skill. And seriously, it's one of the easiest empyreans to get- The item trials are ONLY for staff, so you never have competition for it, and since 95% of the time those tusks and fangs are hitting the floor when anyone fights those NMs, you can probably get them for free/cheap from those groups even if you don't have an LS to farm pops with.

While you're busy telling people they can't melee on summoner, I'm pushing out melee DoT comparable with other 2H weapons in abyssea- that plus 6k+ (or much more under certain circumstances) predator claws.
LOLmeleeSMN? I think not. The stigma associated with this is created by closed minded players who simply label summoner a "mage" and say "mages can't melee."

I cant help but laugh at anyone doing magian staves for perpetuation cost- You don't even need perp on the weapon slot to get free avatars anymore. You don't need an empyrean staff, but Soulscourge is basically the best "normal" staff for SMN, and it's not difficult to get.

There are situations where I like to make use of the magical end of SMN, maximizing maginess and using the elemental BPs, which can also pump out very high damage- there are a number of NMs and fights where this is an ideal strategy. I am open to all play styles- and so should everyone else be.

//Normally I dislike Dallas with a passion. But the melee summoner playstyle is sound and functional and while I disagree with him on most subjects, I don't disagree with this.

[Dallas]

We should not let Korpg derail this thread with melee SMN. I know of at least 3 active threads he could visit without getting this thread locked.

BTW, gratz on your weapon.

[Korpg]

I wasn't going to comment again, but this did it for me. You say this as if it's something that should be seen as taboo or not allowed. If you've invested the time in it and gotten appropriate gear, it's not just possible, it's very strong.

//I have the empyrean staff- and full merits in staff skill. And seriously, it's one of the easiest empyreans to get- The item trials are ONLY for staff, so you never have competition for it, and since 95% of the time those tusks and fangs are hitting the floor when anyone fights those NMs, you can probably get them for free/cheap from those groups even if you don't have an LS to farm pops with.

While you're busy telling people they can't melee on summoner, I'm pushing out melee DoT comparable with other 2H weapons in abyssea- that plus 6k+ (or much more under certain circumstances) predator claws.
LOLmeleeSMN? I think not. The stigma associated with this is created by closed minded players who simply label summoner a "mage" and say "mages can't melee."

I cant help but laugh at anyone doing magian staves for perpetuation cost- You don't even need perp on the weapon slot to get free avatars anymore. You don't need an empyrean staff, but Soulscourge is basically the best "normal" staff for SMN, and it's not difficult to get.

There are situations where I like to make use of the magical end of SMN, maximizing maginess and using the elemental BPs, which can also pump out very high damage- there are a number of NMs and fights where this is an ideal strategy. I am open to all play styles- and so should everyone else be.

//Normally I dislike Dallas with a passion. But the melee summoner playstyle is sound and functional and while I disagree with him on most subjects, I don't disagree with this.

I don't mind if anyone else melees as their SMN. By all means, go for it.

But telling everyone that they are gimp by NOT meleeing on their SMN, thats what gets me.

Besides, the way Dallas states it, he HAS to melee to keep his avatar out. His gear that he has posted on another thread (I believe its that pet one of his) requires him to keep meleeing just to get MP back from perp cost and BP usage. I already argued why he shouldn't melee in a group setting, so I won't do so here.

I hope that you have a standby set that would let you not have to melee to keep MP up for the instances that meleeing on SMN would not be beneficial for you or the group you are in.

[Alhanelem]

But telling everyone that they are gimp by NOT meleeing on their SMN, thats what gets me.

Don't worry, that's not me, and that's where I become at odds with him. There are many fun and effective ways to utilize summoner. The only real problem right now is summoner in gneneral has been really minimized by the current "wait for proc/TH buildup then kill" metagame.

Besides, the way Dallas states it, he HAS to melee to keep his avatar out. His gear that he has posted on another thread

Outside of abyssea it might be more necessary, but inside, with your inflated stats and DD atmas, you can keep your perp and refresh on and still perform just fine. Granted, you can take it off and probably do more damage, but it does create a sense of urgency in maintaining your MP- It's still not super difficult, because Myrkr gives so much MP back and then ups your DoT, but if you're in trouble, it could make the difference between dying and not.

[Xellith]

We are at yet another job adjustments but no sight of spirits adjustments. When are they coming? There hasn't been a single spirit update since I bought this game 2003. (Not counting adding thunder spirit and dark spirit scrolls or Elemental Siphon, because neither of them adjusted spirits)

The issue is so severe it should have highest priority, borderline emergency maintenance level, and yet it seems to not even be considered. I've reported this issue every single year, and it seems like I'm wasting my time.

The worst part is probably that I haven't even gotten any feedback on this from the development team. Just constant new false hope from comments like "Thank you for your feedback, we'll look into this." Well, you've looked into it 8 years, do you have any form of reply to give me now?

What do one have to do to be worthy of getting a developer reply, if waiting 8 years is not good enough? Should I crawl on my legs and beg? I perfectly understand they can't reply to everything, but one 8 year old issue seems to me like a good candidate if they are going to reply to anything this year.

Am I perhaps not making it clear what question to forward to the development team?

"Not a single Summoner uses spirits since long before 2003. Are there any plans to update them? The problem is that they have too long wait between spells, are too random in spell selection and have to wait max delay after using the abilities "assault" and "retreat"".

It has gotten so bad, that currently I value a reply higher than an actual update. And I value an update really high.

Unfortunately for everyone who plays FFXI, the dev team has a philosophy - If nobody plays the job then don't give it updates. If people do play the job then do give it updates.

[Malamasala]

Agreed, acc is much less important than it used to be. But the fact still remains that any other group 1 merit > spirit perp cost.

Keep telling yourself that. There are studies and tests done on the subject that shows that they are useless.

I've run a very basic test myself on this.
STR atma -> slight damage increase
Attack atma -> hardly noticable increase
STR+attack atma -> some damage increase

My theory is that avatars have too low STR to benefit from attack bonus. Basically their existing attack allows them to hit damage cap... which is low due to being BLMs with the STR of a BLM. Increasing STR makes your attack uncapped, so it can hit harder, but not guaranteed to. Raising both is the only solid choice.

If anyone want to seriously find out, they can do more tests. I have a good enough indication that attack isn't worth it to not bother with collecting such gear.