[dev1010] Spirits

[Alhanelem]

I would guess that the only reason they even exist is because avatars used to be difficult to acquire. SE probably felt that summoners should have something readily available other than Carbuncle back when Zilart first came out.

I must say though, that I've always found it odd that they have such a high perpetuation cost.

That's part of it- As I explained earlier- Summoner was added, sort of a suprise, with the prepratory patch for Rise of the Zilart. It does not itself require rise of the zilart, however all of the avatars do require an expansion, except for carbuncle which is given for free. If you didn't get the expansion, carbuncle would be your only spell if the spirits weren't there.

[Swords]

I would guess that the only reason they even exist is because avatars used to be difficult to acquire. SE probably felt that summoners should have something readily available other than Carbuncle back when Zilart first came out.

I must say though, that I've always found it odd that they have such a high perpetuation cost.

Then again, most SMN based mobs use elementals so it stands to at least a degree they "intended" on giving them more purpose than they have now back when they were implemented. It's just hard to say really, I mean did SE put the demon Summoners in castle zhval before SMN was accessable or after.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I find the urgency of the OP amusing

however It did give me an idea

maybe they could add a buff to avatar's favor for the spirits to make them a bit more useful.. of course it doesn't have to be tomorrow >_>

like air elemental could be a 3~5% haste favor

or fire elemental could be 5~10 str favor

minor buffs like that.. nothing overpowering mind you.. but could be plausibly useful at some point

[Korpg]

why not, instead, ask for something in the lines of "Sic" and "Ready" that BST have?

Ask for the ability to choose the spells.

[Krisan]

why not, instead, ask for something in the lines of "Sic" and "Ready" that BST have?

Ask for the ability to choose the spells.

This would be the obvious solution, but at the same time there would also be little point to being able to choose what they cast. The Avatars already can cast a few tiers of magic that the Spirits are capable of.. The Spirits have access to more magic overall, yes, but then that makes the spells the Avatars cast rather pointless. (Why bother with the Avatar which takes longer to summon, if you can cast the same magic and more with the Spirit?)

The fact they're autonomous isn't entirely the problem, it's that they're stupid most of the time, and that they have a ridiculously high perp cost to maintain. (Higher than that of the Avatar's, up to a certain level, which doesn't even make sense.) I'm not honestly sure what would be the ideal solution to them, but I do think lowering the perp cost (or even eliminating it) would be a step in the right direction.. Beyond that I don't know, an attack command so that you can at least choose the target they go after would be a decent improvement if coupled with a lower cost though.

[Soundwave]

Adding a JA for a different stance for spirits could be an idea...however It may be a bit unbalanced/unfair due to the fact we have to cast a avatar/spirit in order for the proper effect.

Whm and Sam can switch at will, unless they make avatars 1 sec cast.

In the end spirits being so random is lame, just as lame as BP based on game day/moon phase. Which is why I'm glad to see Diamond Storm etc.

[Juri_Licious]

SE make Spirits 1 MP per tick please.

[Korpg]

This would be the obvious solution, but at the same time there would also be little point to being able to choose what they cast. The Avatars already can cast a few tiers of magic that the Spirits are capable of.. The Spirits have access to more magic overall, yes, but then that makes the spells the Avatars cast rather pointless. (Why bother with the Avatar which takes longer to summon, if you can cast the same magic and more with the Spirit?)

You misunderstand. Having an ability to choose the spells would make SMN a least a little more useful in procing yellow. Why you ask? Because Spirits have all spells a BLM (exception, Teir 3 -ga) and WHM (exception, Banishga II) would have. With the ability to find the element weakness of a NM, you can have a SMN help proc yellow along with the BLM, WHM, BRD, and BLU/NIN.

The fact they're autonomous isn't entirely the problem, it's that they're stupid most of the time, and that they have a ridiculously high perp cost to maintain. (Higher than that of the Avatar's, up to a certain level, which doesn't even make sense.) I'm not honestly sure what would be the ideal solution to them, but I do think lowering the perp cost (or even eliminating it) would be a step in the right direction.. Beyond that I don't know, an attack command so that you can at least choose the target they go after would be a decent improvement if coupled with a lower cost though.

You also forget that spirits also have the same defense structure as elementals. You know how hard it is to whack on an elemental with physical damage only? Technically the same (I say technically because mob damage is different than ours). Also, as spellcasters go, they don't get interrupted (as much) as a BLM when they are getting whacked off.

Reducing the perp cost is a right direction, but reducing it below current avatar levels is just silly. I mean, it is so easy to get free avatars now without doing any of the TotM starves, there is no point in having spirits cost less than the avatars now.

[Teraniku]

I dunno, Spirits aren't designed to be better than Avatars for Sure. Nothing they can do to Spirits better than Avatars.

:|

But they could use Spirits to make Avatars better for a limited time. For Example having Garuda and Air Spirit out increases Garuda's Physical and Magic Damage by XX%. Or you could do the whole Leviathan and the Water Spirit merge to form Siren, which would either increase damage or give more powerful abilities.

[Swords]

Could work out well, doubt the bonuses would outweigh just having two Garudas instead though. Of course maybe making it a multipler bonus like for each 1 Garuda to each 1 Air Spirit out on the field within a certain radius of each other they gain an increased bonus.

Example:
1 Air Spirit : 1 Garuda= Every Garuda 1.2x DMG/DEF/MAB/etc.
2 Air Spirits : 2 Garudas = Every Garuda 1.4x
3 Air Spirts : 3 Garudas = Every Garuda 1.6x
4 : 4 = 1.8x
5 : 5 = 2x

Cap it out at somewhere between 1.5x-2x multipler, to make it worth using but keep it from being too powerful. Throw in an effect such as, the Spirits HP is VERY gradually drained while in presence of the avatars of the corresponding element as a side effect. Like the avatar is absorbing power from the Spirit, but the avatars hp is gradually drained or powers decreased in the presence of an opposing element, like a Thunder Spirit in presence of Leviathan.

Then again heres just another crazy idea. Why not make each elemental present give an affinity bonus within a certain range of the Spirit, and each additional Spirit within the party/alliance only increases the affinity. Of course like with the counter-effect mentioned above, for each +1 in an effect it gives a -1 affinity for each opposing element.

Example:
2x Thunder Spirit = Thunder Affinity +2, -2 Earth Affinity
1x Ice Spirit = Ice Affinity +1, -1 Fire Affinity