August 2022 FINAL FANTASY XI Digest

[Velner]

If a content is designed for 6 players, allowing an alliance would completely trivialize the content.

Like I said, it seems the +3 stage will come from a different content. They can make that alliance tailored if they want, but it better be like existing ones where I can gradually grind it out without one.

Yes, taking on Reisenjima HELMs or Tumult Curator with 18 people is "trivial" . . .

[VoiceMemo]

Yes, taking on Reisenjima HELMs or Tumult Curator with 18 people is "trivial" . . .

Well these 2 examples are of less is more situations, because of the hp scaling.

[Velner]

Well these 2 examples are of less is more situations, because of the hp scaling.

Sure. . . but more importantly, these examples demonstrate that content can certainly be designed for both single party and alliance without making the content "trivial."

[Uriah]

Just making the HP higher isn't a good method to make 6 player into 18 player.

[Velner]

Just making the HP higher isn't a good method to make 6 player into 18 player.

That's really not germane to the conversation, though, is it? The only point that I am making is that is that content has been made that is appropriate for 6-person to 18-person without being made trivially easy. Therefore, this conversation that content needs to be single party OR alliance is a false dichotomy. The method by which scaling should be done is really a separate conversation. After all, there are other clever ways SE has scaled content without HP scaling (like Dynamis-D being in 3 waves).

[Anza]

All the AF/Relic upgrade events have so far allowed alliances. I truly hope they allow alliances, it will allow existing groups doing these content to switch over with the same roster

This. Figure out some scaling, sure. But FFXI is inherently a social game, and it sucks to have to leave people out if you have 7+ wanting to do something together.

Omen and Dyna are the most recent alliance content, and having a more current endgame event supporting alliances would be good. As it is, the more current endgame content is ALL based on 6 person max. Odyssey Sheol/Gaol, monthly Ambu refreshes, even ML parties.

I like the ability to make progress and get Empy +2/+3 stuff solo or with a single party. But I also want something newer than Dyna Divergence for alliances to be able to do together.

[Sp1cyryan]

That's really not germane to the conversation, though, is it? The only point that I am making is that is that content has been made that is appropriate for 6-person to 18-person without being made trivially easy. Therefore, this conversation that content needs to be single party OR alliance is a false dichotomy. The method by which scaling should be done is really a separate conversation. After all, there are other clever ways SE has scaled content without HP scaling (like Dynamis-D being in 3 waves).

It is germane, and there is no false dichotomy. This game has steadily moved away from alliance content. Balancing it for such has typically been lazily done via HP scaling. Which either rewards or punishes players for taking more or less. That's not balance, and the team can better design something for a party than an entire alliance. So it's a matter of balancing it for more or less, and that's the dichotomy because more is 18 and less is 6.

No other event in the past, prior design choices, or Tanaka's favorite shirt to wear to the next anniversary matters. We could sit here and argue about what balance is or who thinks divergence is or isn't balanced. We could debate that its design in no way applies to any other event due to the entirely unique nature of it. However, it doesn't matter because everyone here wants what they want. Luckily, players like myself who see more merit in 6 player content are going to be more satisfied than not in how all future content is created.

This happens every time too. "But muh LS can't all do ambuscade together!!!" When that event also clearly needs to be 6 player content.

[Velner]

This happens every time too. "But muh LS can't all do ambuscade together!!!" When that event also clearly needs to be 6 player content.

Why are you quoting a sentence I didn't say, to make a point I didn't make, and using 'muh' instead of 'my' to call me stupid? Rude. . .

And I think it's actually pretty funny that you pointed this out. Despite the game design moving towards single-party, you aptly point out that there is pushback from the community every time. Even on content like Ambuscade that has practical reasons why it absolutely should be single-party.

The fact remains: the game can be developed to support both single-party and alliance content. The only actual lazy decision is to not bother attempting to scale the content for an alliance because that would actually require extra steps and planning. And everybody who doesn't like the "balance" of 7+, or the hassle of creating a party beyond 6, can stick to the single-party. That's why I call it a false dichotomy. We could have both.

Saying you don't like it so nobody should like it. . . it's like when religious cults demand a television show be cancelled because they're offended. Just don't watch it.

[Alhanelem]

This. Figure out some scaling, sure. But FFXI is inherently a social game, and it sucks to have to leave people out if you have 7+ wanting to do something together.

You can do this content with 1 person. Thus, you could easily just do two parties even if you don't have 12. I'm glad you have 7+ people to do content with, but I don't (at least, not on command), so I'm happy it's designed the way it is. I repeat, no one hass to be left out, just divide up however many people you have into multiple parties that can each run the content.

Saying you don't like it so nobody should like it. . . it's like when religious cults demand a television show be cancelled because they're offended. Just don't watch it.

In your example, it's not watching the show that would offend them. it's the mere existence of it, and/or that someone would have the audacity to dare to make it in the first place. Kinda like how there's a few people on this forum who hate FFXIV merely because it exists and not because of any positive or negative attributes the game itself may or may not posess.

[Velner]

You can do this content with 1 person. Thus, you could easily just do two parties even if you don't have 12. I'm glad you have 7+ people to do content with, but I don't (at least, not on command), so I'm happy it's designed the way it is. I repeat, no one hass to be left out, just divide up however many people you have into multiple parties that can each run the content.

Even if the parties work out perfectly and you have two fully balanced parties or three fully balanced parties, it is not the same experience at all to go in with three separate groups. Event time is a time when we all come together as friends in Discord to play XI and to hang out. This may be a surprise, but there is a social aspect to this game outside of just doing the content. . . I'm also here to have fun with my friends. Splitting us up is only having fun with *some* of my friends which is less fun no matter how you slice it.

And I get that you don't care because you don't play in a large group. And that's perfectly fine. But why would you also want to make sure other people don't enjoy it as much as they could even if it would have zero impact on your experience? That's what I don't understand about people reacting so negatively when others express their desire for alliance content. . .