Please Rework "FULL BREAK'S" effectiveness + other GA ws's like it DEV TEAM /wave

[Mirage]

Nah, obviously every percentage above 100 should turn into +1% double attack!
But because you can't "eye" a difference in 1% DA, it should probably be 50% DA per percentage above 100.

[kingfury]

It's ok, I actually had to open wiki to see if I was being wooshed or not. It's been so long since I've looked at the formulas I wasn't sure if I was remembering them correctly.
And kingfury. I just don't know. The reason you are feeling completely baffled is because you are an idiot. I have been trying to show you in simple terms why adjusting the break skills can't work. Are you seriously trying to turn the points I brought up around on me when you had zero comprehension of what I was even talking about before I raised them?
Where did you ever suggest making all mobs IT+++++? Are you now saying that's a reasonable solution to what (only) you see as a problem?
No, all I see is you clinging to your stupid notion that you should be able to eyeball some super jump in damage when you use your uber break weapon skills. I explained why you don't see it, so you suggest changing the formulas for combat... so you can see more damage!
I just want you to answer one question. Lets say SE follows your example, and removes the caps on cRatio and hit rate. When you have 100% accuracy, drop your Shield Break II, and still can't see that extra 50% hit rate you should have gotten, will you expect SE to change the laws of physics for you?

---------------
The fourth grade must be fun eh?

And you see what I meant by this never ending loop right? Great gooses man. /sigh
My point is, I didn't need a formula to understand the ws is utterly useless to me man, I've tested the darn thing for years. You're the one tossing up the number argument. I actually believe you have taking a few hours out of your days to dig around the wiki for these numbers, so I trust your findings you've posted enough to make valid that you see the problem at hand with the ws's. Don't get mad at me since you've come to terms with what I was saying all along is in fact valid; the GA's Break ws's are about as useless as a Bow and arrow made out of wet noodles. Name calling won't change your new found understanding I'm afraid /stagger lol

Even after agreeing with me, you still have steam left to mush on eh? I'll leave this sad example of a debate to rest now if you please. It's not very rewarding to have a mental battle with someone that prefers to toss poop once they've been reduced to having no argument y'know.

Please, don't pretend to attempt to talk creatively with such a condescending and belittle tone. It's like a fat person trying to walk lightly. It's counter productive. If the Devs consider my suggestion, they will do so with a creative and balanced mindset that would benefit the entire game. That much I'm sure of.

[kingfury]

Nah, obviously every percentage above 100 should turn into +1% double attack!
But because you can't "eye" a difference in 1% DA, it should probably be 50% DA per percentage above 100.

--------------
lol (*Joking Tone Here*) You forgot to hit your own "Like" button again! ^^ (*A JOKE* so don't get pissy yeah)
I /laughed at your post ^^

[Mirage]

the only reason you would say that is because you do that yourself

[kingfury]

lol you can check my post if you like ^^ Aww c'mon now where's the smiles? i was just pullin your chain

[Urteil]

Faux-happiness is irritating.

[kingfury]

Faux-happiness is irritating.

---------
I agree, but so is a group of salty folks with a lack of humor >< lol I gotta break the repetitive "I'M MAD AT YOU!" tone somehow right? ^^

Plus, I'm not angry at anyone on this thread. I wouldn't dare invest "heavy" emotion on such a thing as a suggestion board ^^ The level of seriousness throughout this thread is no different from what I've dealt with in-game for years. Folks throw temper tantrums all day, every day inside FFXI when they don't agree with you. It's the status quo it seems for most folks to get to the "name calling", "belittling", "Calling you crazy for daring to think outside the box" I've found, so I'm pretty use to this sort of thing. At the end of the day, we're having a "so called" debate over an online game. Seriously losing your giblets over such a thing really isn't worth it. Even the weak attacks tossed at me are taken with humorous tone.

I'm not faking happiness at all, so by all means, no need to ruin your day over anything posted here. ^^/

Though it is pretty sad when you can type (*JOKING TONE*) and people still twist their panties >< lol

[Arcon]

All the flame aside, I can understand the desire for improving useless WS. After all, no one uses them like they are now, so why are they even in the game?

Personally I had a hard time wrapping my head around this argument, because I don't like "idle" content, content that is just there but serves no purpose. However, that content is what makes up 95% of the game. And if you think about it, look at the sheer amount of content the game has right now. This extends far beyond weapon skills. Gear is probably the best/worst example of how this imbalance has progressed.

Why don't you use level 7 leather gear at level 75+? Because there's better options. Tons and tons of better options. And there's tons and tons of better options than those aforementioned better options. I'd like to say that 90% of all gear in the game is obsolete. And know what? It's at lower levels too. There's both armor and weapons that simply aren't worth getting, even at their appropriate levels.

What about spells? Why don't high level BLMs don't use Stone II anymore? Zones, why is no one going to Carpenter's Landing or Dangruf Wadi?

The list goes on and on. And it's the exact same thing here. Some WS are meant to be better than others. At some point, WS are simply outdated. And know what? Compared to other items mentioned before, these WS aren't even that useless. Maybe with the way the game currently plays, but the effects of these WS are based on the number of people an in alliance. There's always one WAR who is simply subpar. Their Raging Rushes don't exceed 600 damage, they whiff for 80% of the time and they are slow to mele/engage. They are often better off using a Break WS than actually trying to deal damage themselves. And good WARs? Simply ignore those WS, they are outdated. They already have plenty of useful WS, compared to other jobs, Raging Rush, King's Justice and Steel Cyclone all have a justification to be used. And now Ukko's Fury dominates them all.

The sooner you wrap your head around the fact that some things are meant to die, the better. Because it's unrealistic the opposite will happen. Why should all WS be good in the first place? Which one would you use? You want a different WS for all two hundred different situations? It's simply not meant to be.

[kingfury]

@ Arcon: Now here's a valid debate that's devoid of the crap, so thanks for the breath of fresh air.

I can see your points, and you make a good argument with them, but lets look at it another way for second. Yes, you're absolutely correct that Items, Food, Weapons, and most of all Gear should in fact fit inside the logic "that some things are eventually meant to die or become outdated". These things are satellite concepts to the one true scaleable and growing theme inside this game which happens to be "The Player". Even though the Devs are attempting to change that to some degree with Synergy Augments soon, and has done a GREAT job with weapons via the Trial of the Magians system, the fact will remain true, that far superior options are of course awaiting us as time goes on.

But look back to the "ever growing and evolving Player". Job abilities, Spells, and weapon skills really shouldn't fit in the same category as the above mentioned items in my opinion. I believe they should be just as scaleable and ever-growing as we are because they are tied to our growth as players. Players don't receive new weapons/gear once they've leveled up or acquired enough skill using a weapon, but they do receive new weapon skills and job abilities. It's not that they can't be made to be scaleable. With the similar logic of what was put into the Trial of the Magians system, technically speaking the Devs could /toss out things like spell tiers all together and have stuff like "STONE(+1-6)", and "CURE(+1-6)" in an effort to make such things scaleable as we increase in level and grow more powerful. The "Merit Point System" was in essence a very simplified Trial of the Magian system for JA's if you think about it. You had to go out and do stuff (gain exp) to then return to the system and "turn in" your required currency (merit points) to improve your JA's. So if you see it as it would be seen via the Trial of the Magians system, it would look like "Berserk+2" and "Double Attack+5" and so on. One of the biggest problems with the Merit Point system in fact was that we didn't get to pick from a list of all our abilities when deciding which JA we wanted to enhance. The same goes for the TotM weapons. The Devs decided for us.

Take Berserk for instance. It's a level 15 JA that still has use at level 90. That's scaleability right there lol, and it's as it should be as far as I'm concerned. Weaponskills should be just as scaleable right? Not to say that one ws is "more useful" than the other, cause that would warrant change to the game if things are non useful, but rather have "different uses" during battle.

A good WAR, or player for that matter, understands both offense and defense in this game and how to balance both based on the situation in front of them. Trying to run in and do high amounts of damage ALL the time for every situation is a quick way of getting yourself K.O.'d most of the time. Strategy is what is bred from our weapon skills and Job abilities. Now imagine for a moment that the Break ws's used on GA were just as effective now at lvl 90 as they were the day a player received them. Wouldn't that breed more strategy during battle vs trying to only do the most melee damage? As you know, some monsters in this game just don't accept that type of strategy.

In terms of distinguishing which ws deals the most damage over another, this too bothers me to some extent. Well it bothers a LOT of players in fact lol. Just look at the changes that are about to made to Relics based on just such a debate. It makes no sense that ws's should be outdated as we rise in skill levels and power, and frankly it pissed those people off that they worked their butts of to achieve these weapons and ws's only to find they are poop compared to new weapon skills. So what did SE do? They listened! They agreed that this should not be the case, and are making the effort to CHANGE the current coding around to balance it out. I'm suggesting such change based on the same principles towards these Break weapon skills.

If it sounds crazy to others, it's just because it's too far out of the box for them to understand that I'm simply asking for balanced natural progression of the abilities we receive whether early on at low levels or in upcoming version updates. Just like Relic ws's, I believe these beginning ws's should follow the same suit of scaleability as our JA's.

Again thanks for posting a valid argument devoid of the kiddy crap. /salute

[Eeek]

Kingfury, here's the deal...

I, along with many other people here, have participated in brainstorming sessions in our academic and professional lives. Tossing out bad ideas is part of the process - silly, terrible, improbable, and infeasible ideas tend to be sparks for good ideas. It's important, however, to assess and separate the ideas objectively and without passion. No one respects or thinks highly of the person who goes to the mat tirelessly defending every idea, good and bad. It bogs down the process.

While I believe it's ultimately unnecessary, the "Gyms of Vana'diel" concept was a decently good idea. It remains to be seen whether or not that concept will see implementation into FFXI in one form or another, but it wouldn't surprise me to see implemented later on in the year.

Here's the problem though: you passionately defend every one of your ideas as if they're as good as the "Gyms of Vana'diel" concept. Here's the naked truth - both the Evolith concepts and the overpowered Great Axe Weaponskills concepts are bad ideas, but you seem unable to differentiate between your good and bad concepts. You adamantly defend all of them - without acknowledging any valid criticisms. What the rest of us view as valid criticisms you view as personal attacks, and that's just not the case. It's counterproductive.

Here's an example:

On the forum's first day, I created a (lulzy) thread in the Black Mage forum: "Job Trait: Auto-Refresh?" In the OP, I argued that Black Mages still suffered from MP problems outside of Abyssea, and that we could use an Auto-Refresh Job Trait to address the problem. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but other posters rightfully disagreed with me and shot down my bad idea.

But...

My bad idea sparked a good idea from another poster! In the thread's second post, Teakwood (along with other posters) argued that /RDM and several new pieces of Refresh gear, MP wasn't nearly the problem that it used to be. He also mentioned something I did not know: all mobs in FFXIV have MP pool for mages to Aspir. He also, correctly, made the distinction between playing BLM around aspirable mobs and non-aspirable mobs and that they're completely different ballgames.

From my bad idea sprung Teakwood's good idea: instead of tacking an Auto-Refresh Job Trait on to BLM, would it be possible to adjust FFXI mobs as to give all of them MP pools? Instead of Auto-Refresh, BLMs could instead make more use of their Aspir spells. This kind of adjustment would also benefit mages other than BLM. I know I'd love to be surrounded by Aspirable mobs at all times!

Kingfury, intelligent posters here will not take you seriously again until you're able let your bad ideas go and leave them to rest. You need to be able to differentiate between good and bad concepts, and you need to be able to identify, and even expand upon, good ideas that evolve from the ashes of your bad ideas. It's perfectly natural, professional, and people would respect you more.

And lastly, your signature does you no favors. It's cocky and arrogant. You're no more a developer than the rest of us.