Please Rework "FULL BREAK'S" effectiveness + other GA ws's like it DEV TEAM /wave

[kingfury]

Those are also NMs that you wouldn't really want to use Full Break on, especially Mict. You spend so much time turning away that self-buffing things like what you're proposing are wasted. You're better off using your WS to do the best damage possible when you can do damage.

Full Break as you're proposing, apart from being either broken or useless, is inconsistent with the idea of a "Break," which is inherently a debuff. This just isn't a good idea. Increase their magical accuracy so that they have their intended effect more often, then accept that all weaponskills aren't useful.

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I wasn't saying that FB would be good to use on these targets Byrth, I was just trying to drive home the point that some monsters in this game don't warrant the "Fast Kill" mentality. That wouldn't mean that that it wouldn't be great to use while burning through lots of monsters and in times when you wish to Buff up the damage from other DD's in your party. Yes it would sacrifice 100 TP and minus the damage from you're own possible powerful ws, but it would be replaced by the possible doubled or so damage from the ws's of every other DD in the party. It's just looking at in a different way is all. Minus your 1 ws, to possibly double the other ws's in the group.

The suggested Bolstered effect FB that I'm proposing would still inflict the same enfeebles as it does now, it would just add the Bolstered stat effect to the equation.

[Byrth]

I wasn't saying that FB would be good to use on these targets Byrth, I was just trying to drive home the point that some monsters in this game don't warrant the "Fast Kill" mentality. That wouldn't mean that that it wouldn't be great to use while burning through lots of monsters and in times when you wish to Buff up the damage from other DD's in your party. Yes it would sacrifice 100 TP and minus the damage from you're own possible powerful ws, but it would be replaced by the possible doubled or so damage from the ws's of every other DD in the party. It's just looking at in a different way is all. Minus your 1 ws, to possibly double the other ws's in the group.

The suggested Bolstered effect FB that I'm proposing would still inflict the same enfeebles as it does now, it would just add the Bolstered stat effect to the equation.

I don't see how this addresses the criticisms I made in my previous post. The fact that "Breaks" are designed to be debuffs and not buffs still remains, regardless of what you're proposing.

Also, you were specifically giving those NMs as examples of NMs where the "fast kill" mentality doesn't work. The problem with debuffs/buffs is that they have a finite duration, which is best taken advantage of if you're continuously meleeing a monster. Breaks are bad on monsters where the "fast kill" mentality doesn't apply because you waste time not taking advantage of the debuffs you sacrificed TP for.

Breaks (if they landed more often) would be most useful on monsters where the fight is ~3 minutes (the duration of an unresisted break iirc) and where you're continuously meleeing. Tier 2 NMs other than Glavoid or the Uragnite, for instance.

[kingfury]

Can't argue with you there lol you're both right ^^

I suppose I fear the day when all I have to do in this game is auto attack and ws as a means of "battle strategy". Since I know the Devs are getting this stuff, I would leave it up to them to balance this sad truth.

[kingfury]

@ Greatguardian:

Pandemonium Warden can be killed in 1-5 mins now with duo-small party numbers?! o.o

[Mirage]

Look here

If you are up against an enemy that requires something-break, you will definitely see a difference if you just pay attention. Using shield break against an enemy with high evasion where all other melees are struggling to reach 75% hit rate, will make them hit way more often, and their multihit WSes will consistently deal more damage when they can land more hits more easily.

If all melees in a group has capped accuracy, are you *really* arguing that now they should suddenly have more than 100% accuracy, which again should be visible to to the naked eye? Because this is exactly what you are arguing when you want that powered up defence-down effect.

Just like when we're capped on accuracy we don't see benefits from shield break (or other evasion-reducing effects on the mob), when we are capped (or near capped) on attack, we will not see any benefits from a full break with -45% defence. The *only* way to make full break effective is to add mobs where we are very far from capped on attack. Asking to have the WS buff all melees that are on the mob instead is exactly the same as asking for Warcry to be a TP move warriors can use every time they hit 100 TP.

Just so you know, reacing 100 TP is ridiculously fast these days, so basically you're asking warriors to be able to give (another) warcry to their entire alliance every 25 seconds.

[kingfury]

Look here
If you are up against an enemy that requires something-break, you will definitely see a difference if you just pay attention. Using shield break against an enemy with high evasion where all other melees are struggling to reach 75% hit rate, will make them hit way more often, and their multihit WSes will consistently deal more damage when they can land more hits more easily.
If all melees in a group has capped accuracy, are you *really* arguing that now they should suddenly have more than 100% accuracy, which again should be visible to to the naked eye? Because this is exactly what you are arguing when you want that powered up defence-down effect.
Just like when we're capped on accuracy we don't see benefits from shield break (or other evasion-reducing effects on the mob), when we are capped (or near capped) on attack, we will not see any benefits from a full break with -45% defence. The *only* way to make full break effective is to add mobs where we are very far from capped on attack. Asking to have the WS buff all melees that are on the mob instead is exactly the same as asking for Warcry to be a TP move warriors can use every time they hit 100 TP.
Just so you know, reacing 100 TP is ridiculously fast these days, so basically you're asking warriors to be able to give (another) warcry to their entire alliance every 25 seconds.

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I know Mirage ^^ but the point now is why bother using the ws's at all over just spamming your most powerful ws.

The buffs may sounds crazy I know, but the argument is valid. If WARs could sacrifice TP to boost your Party DD's ws dmg and acc and PDT (not alliance), every 100 TP, "would it be worth using" is the question. I'm not saying that it is the answer, just trying to push the envelope a bit to spark some creative solutions.

WHAT would make these ws's worth spending 100 TP vs using your most powerful ws? Whatever that answer is better be supercalifragilisticexpialidocious! ^^ Something that would make other DD's in the party ask stuff like, "WTH are you doing?! Why aren't you using Full Break? /slap"

[kingfury]

Right ^^ As they are, they are JUST debuffs/enfeebles. The goal of this thread is to urge the Dev Team to improve and make the ws effects more visible and useful somehow from what they are currently. Mine is only a suggestion that would add some visible damage, accuracy, and -PDT on top of the enfeebles, all of which would be noticeable vs the weak enfeebles the ws's inflict. So yeah, I'm suggesting to make theses ws's perhaps a hybrid of enfeeble/buff in an effort to achieve the thread goal.

The strategy would look like this (lets say outside Abyssea, and low ball the damage for the sake of example):

Without the hybrid Full Break: 200 TP = 2 powerful ws that equal 1k each totaling 2k dmg

With the hybrid Full Break: 100 TP = Full Break > 100 TP = 1 powerful ws that would now possibly be doubled totaling 2k+ dmg and the same boost to all other DD's in your party.

I agree that it would be a magnificent boost, but that's the point after all ^^ "How could these ws's be made to be useful within our current battle strategies?" Like Greatguardian said, unless the ws's made up for the loss of opportunity to use your most powerful ws, it would be wasting TP.

[Camate]

After speaking to the development team about this, they confirmed that they're planning adjustments for a wide variety of weapon skills, which will include the break-related WS, too.

[kingfury]

After speaking to the development team about this, they confirmed that they're planning adjustments for a wide variety of weapon skills, which will include the break-related WS, too.

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/stagger so it was all worth it!!! lol Thank you a ton Camate for the wonderful word /kneel

/Kingfury plays the victory music from FFVII

[Rambus]

After speaking to the development team about this, they confirmed that they're planning adjustments for a wide variety of weapon skills, which will include the break-related WS, too.

YA! point and lauth at all the haters!

tyty

any chance of bringing this up too?:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l-4-skillchain
it is ws releated, sotra.