Please Rework "FULL BREAK'S" effectiveness + other GA ws's like it DEV TEAM /wave

[Mirage]

Idk man, that sounds awfully overpowered. Maybe even not that useful, how many players are sitting at a hit rate of 65%? Likewise, for anything outside of abyssea, we have very high attack and evasion rates vs almost any mob, NM or not. Inside abyssea, we've got atmas that take care of all the buffs we need.

Most good DDs are already getting diminished returns from attack now, when they can roll with 8-900 attack just from their own buffs and food, lowering the mob def wouldn't do much in this case. MOst jobs should be sitting at capped or near capped hit rate as well, so that won't do much either. ninjas have high evasion and idk what, 5 shadows from utsu ni now with the new gear? If that wasn't enough, they can increase their agi and evasion even more with the right atmas. So, mob accuracy doesn't matter much either.

Before anyone brings up "but abyssea isn't everything!" We're 15 levels higher now, that's a *ton* of level correction going on. For starters, +60 evasion, +60 accuracy, and that's from the increased levels alone, not counting higher combat skills.

[kingfury]

Idk man, that sounds awfully overpowered. Maybe even not that useful, how many players are sitting at a hit rate of 65%? Likewise, for anything outside of abyssea, we have very high attack and evasion rates vs almost any mob, NM or not. Inside abyssea, we've got atmas that take care of all the buffs we need.
Most good DDs are already getting diminished returns from attack now, when they can roll with 8-900 attack just from their own buffs and food, lowering the mob def wouldn't do much in this case. MOst jobs should be sitting at capped or near capped hit rate as well, so that won't do much either. ninjas have high evasion and idk what, 5 shadows from utsu ni now with the new gear? If that wasn't enough, they can increase their agi and evasion even more with the right atmas. So, mob accuracy doesn't matter much either.
Before anyone brings up "but abyssea isn't everything!" We're 15 levels higher now, that's a *ton* of level correction going on. For starters, +60 evasion, +60 accuracy, and that's from the increased levels alone, not counting higher combat skills.

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I think I just want "Visible" enfeebles that are clear to both the user of the enfeeble and others teamed with them. As it stands, unless you're using some kind of 3rd party software that displays just how much Full Break actually enfeebles a target, you would be hard press to notice any difference in the targeted stats that are suppose to be reduced.

I would simply like to see a target hitting for 200 dmg be cut down to 126 for 30secs once the ws is used. The same for their DEF, if I'm hitting for 200 dmg I would like to see a clear increase like 276 dmg. That's all ^^ I don't really care how they work the numbers and values, I just want to NOTICE the downed effects.

[Zyeriis]

I don't disagree with the general idea of newer enfeebling weapon skills but I don't think WAR really needs them on Great Axe, considering it can use almost every weapon.

We do need more enfeebling weapon skills though that actually deal damage on their own. Good examples of current weapon skills that fit this bill: Tachi: Yukikaze (Blind), Tachi: Gekko (Silence), Guillotine (Silence), Tachi: Kasha (Paralyze, Blade: Retsu (Paralyze). Enfeebling weaponskills is one of the things SAM still has going for it, then we got that PoS Tachi: Ageha. Sure, it lowers attack but it's so weak in it's own damage that it's never worth it (not forgetting how it doesn't really fit well into skillchaining).

A job/weapon that would be nice to get enfeebling weapon skills on would be swords, clubs, polearms, or great swords for PLD.

Great Swords did get Herculean Slash but, it's just not practical enough (causes paralyze), neither is Shockwave (AoE Sleepga) to be usuable in most situations.

Normal swords get just one enfeebling weapon skill...Flat Blade, which stuns enemies for less than a second most times (if it even hits). Swords are severely lacking in the enfeebling department.

Probably wondering why I brought Polearm up when I was talking about PLD weapons. Paladin can wield Polearms, even if they have an E rating with them. Though, I do not mean PLD specifically when talking about Polearm's lack of enfeebling weapon skills. It's actually in the exact same boat as swords. It has one enfeebling weapon skill, Leg Sweep, which...as you probably already know/guessed, stuns things for about a second.

Next, clubs. Another unused PLD weapon, even considering that Paladin has the highest rating for it in the game with an A-. Club's best weaponskill? Hexa Strike. Guess who can't use it? Paladin. Enfeebling weapon skills for club? There's 2 this time. One that, again, stuns for about a second: Brainshaker and one that lowers an enemy's INT: Skullbreaker. Are either of these useful? No, not even close.

Finally, staves. Guess what job has the highest rating with this weapon? Paladin, A-. Enfeebling weapon skills? Shell Crusher (Lowers enemy's defense) and that's it.

All in all, there's plenty of weapon types that are completely lacking in this department. I didn't include mythic/relic/emp/campaign weapon skills into the argument for obvious reasons. Anyway, WAR/Great Axe are hardly the weapons that need such weapon skills at the moment when so many other weapons are lacking such skills and have generally weaker weapon skills to begin with.

[Mirage]

Great Swords did get Herculean Slash but, it's just not practical enough (causes paralyze), neither is Shockwave (AoE Sleepga) to be usuable in most situations.

Normal swords get just one enfeebling weapon skill...Flat Blade, which stuns enemies for less than a second most times (if it even hits). Swords are severely lacking in the enfeebling department.

Probably wondering why I brought Polearm up when I was talking about PLD weapons. Paladin can wield Polearms, even if they have an E rating with them. Though, I do not mean PLD specifically when talking about Polearm's lack of enfeebling weapon skills. It's actually in the exact same boat as swords. It has one enfeebling weapon skill, Leg Sweep, which...as you probably already know/guessed, stuns things for about a second.

The duration of a stun from a stun WS was never important. It could last for a split millisecond and still be practiclly just as useful as if it lasted 5 seconds. All they need to do is interrupt dangerous abilities and spells. They are however not a reliable way to interrupt such things anyway, because who wants to be sitting on 300tp forever, just in case that gob decides to throw that bomb? It leads to a severe decrease in dps, but if you absolutely have to stun something in order to not die, these WSes give you a fair chance at doing it.

I still remember when a 80% HP suicide bomb toss one-shot me from full HP when I was a lv65 warrior in wotg gustaberg .

Anyway, shockwave's aoe sleep should probably be a bit stronger. On paper, it sounds like the perfect tool to deal with adds when you are soloing, An AoE that sleeps? Hell yeah, i though, just to be pretty disappointed when I at best would be able to sleep one of my links for about 10 seconds.

Silencing WSes are also pretty useful, considering black mage mobs even 20 levels below you can be dangerous to a melee if they manage to pull that nuke off. I've considered leveling archery just in order to land silence arrows, but it would be much better if they would just implement silence bolts seeing as i already have marksmanship leveled .

You don't know so I'll spell them out for you. 37.5% defence down is the equivilent of giving every melee attacking the mob +60% Attack. (100/62.5=1.6)

Good point. It shows even better how overpowered it would be. Imagine giving every melee in your entire alliance Berserk every time you used a WS.

[kingfury]

Anyway, shockwave's aoe sleep should probably be a bit stronger. On paper, it sounds like the perfect tool to deal with adds when you are soloing, An AoE that sleeps? Hell yeah, i though, just to be pretty disappointed when I at best would be able to sleep one of my links for about 10 seconds.

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/Agreed!! I tried to my wits end to make Shockwave work as it's ws description states, but to no avail. /sulk Please adjust this ws too Devs ^^/

Good point. It shows even better how overpowered it would be. Imagine giving every melee in your entire alliance Berserk every time you used a WS.

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Well, not really ^^ Berserk last for 3 mins, Full break would last only a few seconds per each use. So long as the ws damage doesn't beat out other powerful ws's, it would balance out as a tool to help enfeeble the mob for others to increase their damage. I don't know where that (100/62.5=1.6) equation is from, but 37% of anything in this game doesn't break much of anything... well maybe movement speed... but battle stat wise test out +37% Cure Potency, Attack, -MDT, -PDT, etc. and you'll see what I'm saying. It's a nice boost, but not game breaking. 50%+ to stats is where u can see absolute night and day differences in my experience. For example, I have -54 Enmity on my WHM taru, and can spam Cure 6 back to back and not get hate unless the DD's just stopped hitting all together for a good bit, but as soon as I try to reduce that Enmity number (like below -40) I notice the difference right away. A lot of these player generated equations are a bit too far out there most times in my opinion lol.
DEF down dmg: 50 dmg + 37.5% = 87
That's not very game breaking especially for only a few seconds. I'm sure I'll get flooded with all the fDEF %/+*&= equations from this point ^^ but I know damage percents in game based on trying them out, not equations. Not that I'm closed minded to them, just that some of them are pretty weak when it comes to all the added JA's, Gear, Buffs and more added to them.

[noodles355]

Sweet jesus, do you have any concept of moderation kingfury?

I know you love warrior but seriously, just stop. Warrior is already powerful enough without you wanting them access to every single weaponskill from every single job, and without you wanting a retardedly overpowered full break.

You need to be less narrowminded and concider other jobs outside Warrior. Did you even stop to think what would happen if Full Break gave a 37.5% Def down affect apart from Warrior and Dark Knight getting a boost? Hell, do you even realise just how much 37.5% def down is?

You don't know so I'll spell them out for you. 37.5% defence down is the equivilent of giving every melee attacking the mob +60% Attack. (100/62.5=1.6)

Don't you think it would be slightly overpowered to give warrior, which is already a very strong job, a WS that effectively gives the party/alliance an attack buff over twice as strong as berserk?

You also undoubtably do not realise that such a buff would also lose dragoon it's spot in a zerg party as angon would become useless (Angon is 20%).

[kingfury]

Sweet jesus, do you have any concept of moderation kingfury?
I know you love warrior but seriously, just stop. Warrior is already powerful enough without you wanting them access to every single weaponskill from every single job, and without you wanting a retardedly overpowered full break.
You need to be less narrowminded and concider other jobs outside Warrior. Did you even stop to think what would happen if Full Break gave a 37.5% Def down affect apart from Warrior and Dark Knight getting a boost? Hell, do you even realise just how much 37.5% def down is?
You don't know so I'll spell them out for you. 37.5% defence down is the equivilent of giving every melee attacking the mob +60% Attack. (100/62.5=1.6)
Don't you think it would be slightly overpowered to give warrior, which is already a very strong job, a WS that effectively gives the party/alliance an attack buff over twice as strong as berserk?
You also undoubtably do not realise that such a buff would also lose dragoon it's spot in a zerg party as angon would become useless (Angon is 20%).

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Ahh there you are Noodles ^^ we meet again lol

Well as a disclaimer, I'm not really up for a poop throwing fight with ya again, so lets keep it civil this time okie-dokie. Similar to that whole "Weapon Mastery" post, I'm again just wanting to progress something that's already there inside the game. Mages don't complain when they get more powerful spells. Pet users don't complain when they get more powerful pets. DD's don't complain when they get more powerful weapon skills. I don't know why you think it's so crazy of me to ask for more improvements to things that have been in the game for years. It's just natural progression. As we get more and more powerful, shouldn't our abilities follow suite? I think so. The monsters we will fight as we get more powerful will surely balance out any new abilities we are soon to acquire, so I don't see how this would be so far overboard.

I think the problem you have is once you see something you consider "over powered", you pounce into a rabid monkey stance and try to explain how it would upset the current game balance and so on. Why not instead take a constructive stance and figure out how to further balance the game around such a request, which would then provide possible improvement request for others like DRG and more. I'm only suggesting a change for GA's weapon skills, that doesn't mean you can't see this request and request change for DRG's Angon or other ws's out there that could use some boosting as well since you like to think on all dimensions of every job. I'm not being Narrow minded, I'm just focusing on things I would like to see improved. Balancing the game is the Dev Teams job, so they would see this and then say something like, "Ok, if GA gets this, how can we improve other enfeebling ws's to match this?" See?

Now in hindsight of my suggested -37.5% to Att & DEF, and -60 to Acc & EVA, I did say in the OP that such an adjustment would simply need balance testing and feedback from the players to make sure it would fit nicely within the game. They are making the Test Server thing soon for new content. I'm just not tied down by what others consider "Over Powered".

The game has so many more powerful things coming our way, and yet tons of people are so set in their thinking that acquiring more power would break the game /stagger. I really suggest that folks that fear such change & newfound power should just tap outta the game now and save themselves the stress of crying about all the powerful new weapon skills, spells, gear, weapons, job abilities, and more that are in the works.

The bottom line is, don't be closed minded to new ideas that raise the bar for what we as players can do. SE decided to raise the lvl cap to 99, yet folks are whining left and right every step of the way when they should be rejoicing in all the newfound possibilities. If you don't like a concept, suggest another that would balance it instead of flaming it. If my suggestion sounds too high, simply suggest what you think would be better balanced. It's much more progressive is all.

**As a note: If you're wondering why I'm using Bold so much, it's because I've had experience with trying to explain stuff to Noodles and have failed on multiple attempts! lol J/K Noodles (aka: This is a joke... as in, I'm just poking fun at you Noodles!) see even more bold >.> /sigh

[TybudX]

As it stands, unless you're using some kind of 3rd party software that displays just how much Full Break actually enfeebles a target, you would be hard press to notice any difference in the targeted stats that are suppose to be reduced.

So you advocate eye-balling, and to facilitate that you want Great Axe break skills to be so unbalanced that nobody would ever pick 17 of the other jobs for anything, ever again. Got it.

[kingfury]

So you advocate eye-balling, and to facilitate that you want Great Axe break skills to be so unbalanced that nobody would ever pick 17 of the other jobs for anything, ever again. Got it.

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Nah ^^ I just suggested those values off the top of my head, I don't wish for unbalance, just Visible stat reductions. I don't believe adding 10 to the current estimated stat reductions would really solve the issue, so I suggested tripling the current values. Plus did you read my post up there? The whole "constructive stance" thing?

[TybudX]

Plus did you read my post up there?

I've read a quite a few of your posts, some of them several times. I understand that you are well meaning, but you don't appear to have anything past a glancing knowledge of the terms we use to describe how the game functions. Perhaps if you invested your time into learning the game mechanics you could avoid posting senseless 'improvements' like the ones suggested in this thread.

Also, if you really want the effects of Great Axe break skills to be more visible, a simple solution would be for SE to have some sort of timer on screen, and maybe have it disappear when the effect wears off. If only such a change were possible.