[dev1010] Job Adjustments

[Duelle]

Sigh. I figured people would eventually drop the RDM thing, but I see that is not the case.

Atmas are too strong. What's the point of a support job when you can just plug support atmas into your healer.

Trying to make "support" the whole point of a job is not and has never been a good idea. This is why design in general eventually moved away from needing classes to specifically act as mezzers (and refresh bots in the case of FFXI) and in turn do what you just mentioned: baking certain aspects into existing roles. Being the guy that's there to only interrupt, or only sleep, or only stun, or only para/slow in the case of RDM isn't much. To those of us that know the class for its various aspects, it's certainly a downer to see only one shine through and the rest tossed to the gutter.

I do notice that nobody bothered to address my question either, funny how pointing bloody fingers can backfire on you sometimes. What would you have them remove from RDM to get what you want? And yes I said "remove" because RDM is extremely powerful, even if this has been dimished somewhet by Abyss.

So you forgot my response to your question:

I'd say RDM would need a mechanic through which to shift resources and stats. Good melee, decent & reliable enfeebling, below-average support. Good support, decent & reliable healing, below-average melee. Nuking can be made to fit somewhere in there, prefferably with 3-5 yalm range for nukes while in melee mode, but either shorter cast times or instant casts on a 1-minute cooldown. That way, you can't do everything at once on RDM by cluttering your inventory with gear.

Bolded for emphasis. A nerf to switching roles on the fly, but maintaining access to a reasonable level of versatility while on the field (I'm open to discussion on what would be considered reasonable). And yes, that's a huge part of the class as is to remove while keeping the current curebot role. The bonus comes in making a second role available and relevant outside of soloing. It's a win-win.

[Ravenmore]

Whats sad is the best merit parties I ever joined or put together in ToAU didnt need a mage other then brd/nin for march and pulling.

[Dallas]

Melees: The only things a RDM shouldn't lose to here are a BLM or SCH, SMN depending on how you factor the Avatar.

All 3 jobs use the same weapon, but only one melees. If a SMN is meleeing, you might as well assume the avatar is also meleeing. RDM loses on just the melee piece, but has more than enough utility to validate the lost damage.

RDM is the bottom of the melee totem pole. BLM, BRD, and SCH don't even come out to play.

[Supersun]

RDM is the bottom of the melee totem pole...BRD...don't even come out to play.

Actually...about that...I wouldn't be surprised with augmented Rare/Ex gear if Bard finally pulls ahead of Rdm. It's been pretty close up until now.

[Glamdring]

ok, I'll never understand the complaints about rdm not being able to tank. If you want to tank, level a tank job!

that being said, your rdm doesn't have to just sit back and heal. Do what I did leveling evey casting job I've used: 1. draw weapon, 2. whack mob, 3. cast for what you are in the party for while doing 2, 4. tell anyone who complains to STFU until you aren't getting your job done.

there, that was simple wasn't it?

honestly, it's your character, if someone has issues with the way you play it they better be able to back it up by showing how you are not getting your job done, regardless of the job. I've tanked before, and I don't voke every 30 seconds, I use it whenever the mob turns away (unless i need to recast shadows, the cast>>voke); strangely enough that actually works, but to some people I'm "not doing my job". If your job is to keep the party alive and the party is still alive, then you've done your job! You wanna rag on someone save it for the darks that don't stun dangerous moves, or a thief that makes mages pull because they don't want to level ranged attack-news flash, you get hate even if you miss, so you don't have to level ranged attack!

[hiko]

From memory of Aht Urghan, great setups didn't work mages into the ground for an extra couple of k an hour like they were a pack of rabid dogs. In fact, a lot of RDM's would probably have turned down a party if players were insisting on /sam. Maybe a few parties allowed, and were able to keep up with people subbing SAM, but it was far from normal and the division of labor was pretty clearly much heavier for the RDM.

it's more a bad player issue than a job issue, and people that didnt uderstand that faster kill = less curing!
I did pt witj whm & DDs fulltiming hasso that was better than RDM pt where every DDs had to /nin

[Karinya_of_Carbuncle]

ok, I'll never understand the complaints about rdm not being able to tank. If you want to tank, level a tank job!

No, no, have you not been paying any attention for the last year or two? If you want to tank, level a DD job. Tanking with tank jobs is obsolete.

The main issue with enfeebles is a problem of mob design, and atmas making players too overpowered. It's not something that needs RDM adjustments, it's something that needs adjustments to the overall design of the game to bring back mobs that are actually dangerous and difficult to beat.

[blowfin]

Bolded for emphasis. A nerf to switching roles on the fly, but maintaining access to a reasonable level of versatility while on the field (I'm open to discussion on what would be considered reasonable). And yes, that's a huge part of the class as is to remove while keeping the current curebot role. The bonus comes in making a second role available and relevant outside of soloing. It's a win-win.

I do see what you're getting at actually. Maybe a JA where RDM sacrifices MAB and macc for more melee skill? Or something to that effect. Not that I can see it happening, but I do understand the idea.

[Duelle]

No, no, have you not been paying any attention for the last year or two? If you want to tank, level a DD job. Tanking with tank jobs is obsolete.

The main issue with enfeebles is a problem of mob design, and atmas making players too overpowered. It's not something that needs RDM adjustments, it's something that needs adjustments to the overall design of the game to bring back mobs that are actually dangerous and difficult to beat.

This is more due to the fact that people in this game emphasize more on avoiding damage altogether (Utsusemi, Counter) rather than actually mitigating the damage (which is what tank jobs do). The only way I see it fixed would be to nerf counter and utsusemi and start on the fixes and buffs for defense values and shields overall. Problem is nerfing utsu and counter open a can of worms I have a feeling the devs don't want to deal with.

[blowfin]

The only way I see it fixed would be to nerf counter and utsusemi and start on the fixes and buffs for defense values and shields overall. Problem is nerfing utsu and counter open a can of worms I have a feeling the devs don't want to deal with.

Yeah, taking a dump on the rest of the game to fix something that`s not that terribly broken in the first place probably wouldn`t go down too well. I suspect.