[dev1010] Job Adjustments

[Duelle]

Actually Red Mage's AF3 could VERY easily be spun to be powerful melee armor....If they gave us a powerful Elemental Weaponskill. Now I'm not talking about something like Wildfire, but a powerful elemental weaponskill for the sword that is native to Red Mage would put that armor to good use real fast

That'd still leave us with sub-par gear for the TP phase compared to what everyone else gets. I also would not accept it unless it is RDM exclusive and takes up Vorpal Blade's place in the list. And is part of a bigger list of changes.

Why does Swordsman's Armor have nothing to do with close combat, again?

[Supersun]

lol I didn't say it was the only fix.

[blowfin]

All this talk--more like concern trolling to me--about game balance where RDM is concerned is a lot of junk, blowfin. You know it, and so do your lackeys at BlueGartr and the elitist wannabes at Alla.

I'm too lazy to troll that hard, sorry.

Also, I have lackeys at BG?

The thinking of you and your kind is the very reason Estoqueur's Armor has absolutely NOTHING pertinent to close combat. Why should it have such stats when the jackals of this playerbase scream bloody murder at the mere suggestion of Red Mages actually becoming more than capable of contributing on the front lines?

I think it really depends on the way you think of "contributing on the front lines". As far as EXP goes (and apart from it being just about moot in 2011) I don't think RDM is really as far behind as people would make it out to be. I'm assuming a RDM with Aeolian Edge and decent Atmas is a pretty handy thing to have in Abyssea? RDM was mentioned as being a good job to support the Fell Cleave warrior earlier too.

If you're talking about contributing with melee damage for tougher NM fights and the like. Well... 90% of the jobs in this game are generally back line jobs in that situation. I don't think it's realistic to expect to regularly melee in those situations. Being able to support the tanks is fine, but there's the problems of AOE damage (i.e. dead RDM) and feeding needless TP to the NM.

So I guess my point is i'm not seeing the direction of the "fencer mage" being useful in a whole lot of places for RDM. Where exactly does it fit into the game as it currently stands? Maybe it becomes more viable in events like Dynamis but even then, it's barely worth the effort when you are compared with dedicated DD's. Even with buffs and changes it's unreasonable to expect to keep up with them.

[Swords]

Anytime you have 3+ people doing anything that causes damage the TP arguement always becomes moot, and in truth it's always been that way. Melees give mobs tp = (your tp per hit+3) * (numer of hits) and any damaging nuke/enfeeble gives a mob 10tp, so the mobs always have the edge in tp gain. If a mob has a TP move it's going to use it reguardless, in some cases (especially in Abyssea) they're going to spam reguardless of the amount of tp they have and it's still going to hurt just as bad.

I'm not saying everyone should melee it then in those situations cause the AoE still hurts, but I hate the fact everyone tries to use feed TP as a viable arguement to keep anyone out of the frontlines. This is especially true when everyone is on the rage about haste and X-hit weapons, atmas, abilities.

[Seriha]

It actually takes some skill and half decent gear to do too, which I think is a point missed by a lot of people. By requesting them to "fix" that stuff, you're effectively asking them to screw over a lot of the RDM's who do like to low man and solo things. People who've put a lot of work into their gear and a lot of effort into their job, basically.

And yet this is the same stuff that keeps us from getting looked at for changes. It is also the same lame excuse people toss in when RDM asks for changes. I'd give that up in a heartbeat if it meant my class actually took a decent direction and not remained something that would have been hotfixed within hours of being discovered under any other developer team.

It's also a bit of a double standard. Why is okay that "those RDMs" can get what they want, but melee enthusiasts are left hanging? When I talk of those nerfs, it's not from an "OMG I HAET RDM!" mindset, but more of a given purpose of challenge and expectation in a given encounter. If you design a mob for a full alliance, one person should never have a chance. Sure, maybe the elite could cut it down to a single party, but what you try to spin as stratagems are still often exploits, stretching the rules of the code in a way circumvents challenge or difficulty (never getting swung at, negating idle regens by DoT/zoning, etc.). Why are you are more or less encouraging RDMs should do that instead, while a more robust melee style could up their party game and interaction with other players? This is an MMO, right? We should be wanting to play with others, and on the other side of the coin, not work for them.

[svengalis]

i think RDM needs to be looked at with relation Cure 5 being 30 levels late and and the DNC waltz timers split up some

fIf Edmund get cure5 then whims become not needed as much again.

[Urteil]

It's also a bit of a double standard. Why is okay that "those RDMs" can get what they want, but melee enthusiasts are left hanging? When I talk of those nerfs, it's not from an "OMG I HAET RDM!" mindset, but more of a given purpose of challenge and expectation in a given encounter. If you design a mob for a full alliance, one person should never have a chance. Sure, maybe the elite could cut it down to a single party, but what you try to spin as stratagems are still often exploits, stretching the rules of the code in a way circumvents challenge or difficulty (never getting swung at, negating idle regens by DoT/zoning, etc.). Why are you are more or less encouraging RDMs should do that instead, while a more robust melee style could up their party game and interaction with other players? This is an MMO, right? We should be wanting to play with others, and on the other side of the coin, not work for them.

Drain and Aspir III please.

Thank you.