PUPdate is a fail ;_;

[Tsumomo]

Since when did every attachment have to be usable at the same time to be useful.
All PUP's have very different play styles and use different setups.
I have plenty of attachments i haven't used in years, does that mean the attachment is useless NO.
All it means is it doesn't fit into how i use my automaton.
I am very excited to play with the new attachments and see how they fit or don't fit with how i play PUP.
I certainly wont be pissed off if they don't fit into how i play.

Part of what is fun about PUP is finding new ways to play it, there is no ONE way that is perfect for everyone.
You just need to deal with the fact that not all attachments will be perfect for how you play.
If you can fit it in then awesome if not then oh well.

And about the new WS, many people DID ask for new WS to be added to their automaton.
As long as the SS WS is comparable with Armor Piercer i am completely satisfied with the new WS.
I like the thought of actually using VE again.
And being able to use VE and get decent damage with it, using the exact same Atma to boost Master and Pet is a huge plus for me.

[Keyln]

and here I thought the developers were actually starting to show promise, but they prove again they really have no clue about their own game. Not just on Pup, but the Ranger adjustment was pure fail too.

I disagree that the PUP update is a fail. Why don't we wait till the update before we declare it fail.

[Lushipur]

obviously calling a fail was just a provokation

still i thinks SE doesnt read what the playerbase wants and go straight foor the road they think is best for us...

[Dfoley]

Since when did every attachment have to be usable at the same time to be useful.

It doesn't, as long as it has some use in some situations its fine... (see below)

All PUP's have very different play styles and use different setups.

Not true at all sorry, if your using a blm pet and arent using specific attachments (icemaker, loud speaker 1 and loud speaker 2) you aren't doing it right. If you dont have one of them fine, but there is really only 1 set of ice attachments you should be going for. Sure there is more variability with melee frames, but there are still certain attachments you will always want.

I have plenty of attachments i haven't used in years, does that mean the attachment is useless NO.

Yes, why yes it does. If you havent used it, by definition it is useless to you/your setup. Example being: reactive shield, scanner, tactical processor, volt gun. Sure they have 'uses' but honestly they wont be used 99.999999% of the time by anyone.

I certainly wont be pissed off if they don't fit into how i play.

i am not pissed by any means, just wishing they put more thought into these.

You just need to deal with the fact that not all attachments will be perfect for how you play.

And then there will be some that will be terrible no matter how / who uses them. Its one thing to be situational, its another to have no situation that would require it.

I like the thought of actually using VE again.
And being able to use VE and get decent damage with it, using the exact same Atma to boost Master and Pet is a huge plus for me.

This lets me know that:
1) You probably dont have burts
2) you definitely dont do much outside of abyssea

I use ve more then i use SS, and outside of abyssea i use ve+burts to solo pretty much everything I cant tank myself.

[xbobx]

What atma and attachments do you use with VE when using to tank? I have been using VV, RR and mounted champion. Should RR be switched out for GH? Or what about double regen, if it stats, so 35 hp a tick?

thanks

[Frapp]

Not true at all sorry, if your using a blm pet and arent using specific attachments (icemaker, loud speaker 1 and loud speaker 2) you aren't doing it right. If you dont have one of them fine, but there is really only 1 set of ice attachments you should be going for. Sure there is more variability with melee frames, but there are still certain attachments you will always want.

Blindly following one method is doing it wrong. Knowing what you're fighting, who you're fighting it with, and reading the ebb and flow of battle is how you truly command and work with the Automaton.

For example, there have been plenty of times where hate control was an issue, and using a fully powered Ice Maker'd nuke would have thrown the whole fight out of whack - such as taking aggro, bringing the monsters over to the mages where I parked the Automaton, and causing deaths. Using Mana Booster + Loudspeaker I & II allowed me to let the Automaton nuke away more often and safely under the hate threshold.

[Anza]

So pretty much what you're trying to say is Automatons should have limitless Barrage and Regain while RNGs and SAMs have to wait for recast timers to be up?

That's not what he said at all.

I think this consuming a maneuver nonsense is simply unnecessary. Why not just have a random chance of Barrage on a hidden recast timer if a wind maneuver is active, without having to consume a maneuver that's more useful for Turbo Charger/Scope? You know, just like lots of other PUP "ability" attachments that work perfectly fine and don't consume maneuvers - Flashbulb, Strobe, Shock Absorber, Hammermill, etc. It's not "limitless" to make the Barrage attachment have an invisible recast of, say, 3 or 5 minutes.

As for TP, why a big chunk of TP at once instead of a regain attachment that gives 1/2/3 tp per tick with 1/2/3 Fire maneuvers active (much like our Regen and Refresh from light/dark attachments)? It seems like they're making things overly complicated for no reason when there's a much more logical solution to reach the same end. Consuming a fire maneuver is just going to get you out of your desired maneuver setup and require scrambling to get maneuvers back up correctly and not gimp your other attachments.

It takes 2 keystrokes for me to apply a maneuver. This is how the job is played. We have to apply maneuvers to control the Automaton. Whether or not it screws with the time between punches, I really don't know and could care less. If you're getting that ornery over a split second of time that you're not punching things, you need to find a new hobby to focus your love of math.

It's not the difficulty of hitting a button, or even the lag that decreases overall damage. It's the 10 second recast on maneuvers, combined with 1min maneuver duration, combined with attachments that consume maneuvers constantly taking what you've already set up. You're losing big benefits to the other attachments that don't consume maneuvers (for instance, losing fire maneuvers that pump up Tension Springs). PLUS it's even harder now to juggle the correct balance of maneuvers to ensure the correct WS, given the flawed trigger maneuver system for determining WS.

Blindly following one method is doing it wrong. Knowing what you're fighting, who you're fighting it with, and reading the ebb and flow of battle is how you truly command and work with the Automaton.

For example, there have been plenty of times where hate control was an issue, and using a fully powered Ice Maker'd nuke would have thrown the whole fight out of whack - such as taking aggro, bringing the monsters over to the mages where I parked the Automaton, and causing deaths. Using Mana Booster + Loudspeaker I & II allowed me to let the Automaton nuke away more often and safely under the hate threshold.

No, Dustin is doing it right. Any nuking setup that doesn't use ice attachments of either (a) Ice Maker/Loudspeaker II/Loudspeaker I, or (b) Ice Maker/Loudspeaker II/Tranquilizer is, quite simply, doing it wrong. The only decision is whether Tranquilizer would be helpful to reduce resists - something that was a lot more common back in 75cap days than it is in today's 90cap/Abyssea world (but the consideration may make a return in future content).

Hate control should NEVER be an issue with Spiritreaver. Use deactivate, then activate/DEA to get your puppet back. Voila, you have shed all hate.

I personally like to use Stealth Screen in my SR setup and get a couple nukes out of each Activate, then I deactivate to zero out my automaton's enmity.

Also, we have Ventiloquy if you do get overzealous and the puppet pulls hate. Vent, and tank the mob till your tank can get it back.

One last point - if you're still having these kinds of issues, why are you parking your automaton by the mages anyway? Deploy it in its own safe space away from squishy mages.

What I would like to know is why everyone is saying Power Cooler is useless. If it costs 1 Ice Capacity, then why not install it in the one remaining Ice Slot on Spiritreaver when everything else costs 2+? Also, the only Ice Attachment I use on Soulsoother is the Mana Booster because all the other Ice Attachments are useless on WHM bot. If my Automaton can use less MP when she decides to drop a 300HP Cure VI on somebody, sign me up. Less MP usage + Reduced time between casts? How is that a bad thing?

People are saying Power Cooler is useless because MP is just not an issue. Deactivate, re-activate, and you're set. There's no point in not using Deactivate these days now that we have DEA every 60 seconds, so a mistake doesn't mean a ton of downtime waiting on a 20min JA timer.

I agree with you to an extent that if it only costs 1 ice, I might as well use it. I'm not going so far as to call it "useless", just that it's a pretty minor benefit. If nothing else, it might (a) save some MP if I'm being lazy and not monitoring Soulsoother's MP, or (b) keep the puppet MP above the Aspir threshold on Spiritreaver, allowing for another nuke before unwanted Aspir AI kicks in.

Also, Mana Booster is not the only useful ice attachment on Soulsoother. Tranquilizer helps quite a bit in sticking enfeebles. But yeah, the point remains that you will have free ice capacity so I guess it doesn't hurt.

The one thing that might make Power Cooler a little more helpful is if it doesn't require an ice maneuver to have some effect. These descriptions seem intended to be more helpful about what the attachment actually does than past S-E attachment language. So it's possible that "Reduces MP cost in proportion to the number of Ice Maneuvers in effect" means that it has a different %age reduction for 0/1/2/3 maneuvers, and not only 1/2/3 active ice maneuvers. Would make it a little more helpful for Soulsoother since it would provide some minor benefit in a slot you're probably not getting much out of as-is now, even if you DON'T use an ice maneuver (which some people don't like since it triggers enfeebles that you may not want in a healing situation).

[Dfoley]

As always, well put Anza

For example, there have been plenty of times where hate control was an issue, and using a fully powered Ice Maker'd nuke would have thrown the whole fight out of whack - such as taking aggro, bringing the monsters over to the mages where I parked the Automaton, and causing deaths. Using Mana Booster + Loudspeaker I & II allowed me to let the Automaton nuke away more often and safely under the hate threshold

Few issues with this;
1) if you have your pet 'parked', that generally means its sitting there casting, which automatically implys that the only triple ice would be the initial deploy because after that you would never get more then 2 ice back up
2) If its parked as apposed to DAD after every 2 nukes, youll never see more then 2 t5 nukes before aspir starts unless the mob cant be aspired, so that mana booster wont be doing too much help. Other then speeding up the second nuke by 2-4 seconds.

I assume you are refering to just heros bosses as well since visions/scars bosses have so much less hp that hate/dmg shouldnt be an issue, not to mention in an exp alliance, 1 t5 nuke should about one shot any exp mob.

[Xilk]

Recap:

Pups: We want the AI fixed. We want new attachments!, we want new automaton WS's!
SE: here you go: New attachments and new Ws's!
1/2 pups: THIS SUX!! SE NEVER GONNA FIX THE AI!! THIS ISN'T WANT WE WANTED!!

There are some meaningful looks at the changes also, but WAY too much whining imo.

I'm not much of a pup though, only level 38, but decently geared for all that. I do like the job. probably 3rd on my list.

[Lushipur]

Recap:

Pups: We want the AI fixed. We want new attachments!, we want new automaton WS's!
SE: here you go: New attachments and new Ws's!
1/2 pups: THIS SUX!! SE NEVER GONNA FIX THE AI!! THIS ISN'T WANT WE WANTED!!

There are some meaningful looks at the changes also, but WAY too much whining imo.

I'm not much of a pup though, only level 38, but decently geared for all that. I do like the job. probably 3rd on my list.

mhhh just no lol

Pups: we want AI fixed. We want new usefull attachment! we want new automaton ws that doesnt have crappy trigger!
SE: here you go: new situational attachment and new ws with who know which trigger.

not a word about ai fix
not a word about changing how to trigger a ws

sure we have to wait to see what man. trigger the ws, depending on that they could be total win or just like its now (with better ws)

things is, WE know what we wants and how to make pup a better job. SE just doesnt.
We had to wait how many years for somethings like DEA? while the pup community asked for something similar since the beginnings.

i play pup since day 1 and you cant really understand (pup 38 right?) what it was like in the old days with a C skill and a paper pup on a 20min timer lol