PUPdate is a fail ;_;

[Dfoley]

Well here's the thing, i have no desire to equip the flame attachment at all. Since it consumes fire manuevers its pointless since it wont stack with flame holder, and if I had to pick I would always pick flame holder.

I wont ever use the ice one since i would rather have loud speaker x2 anyways, if anything id add mana booster to make it so i can cast more often. Why give up casting speed or dmg for less mana?

The counter one, I have no issue giving up coiler/dynamo for more tanking.

[xiozen]

Xiozen, you seem to be way over estimating this:

Fire Attachment sounds like:
Consumes 1 fire maneuver to add 10 tp on deploy
Consumes 2 fire maneuvers to add 25 tp on deploy
Consumes 3 fire maneuvers to add 50 tp on deply

All of which are rather pointless since you will be giving up wind maneuvers for barrage or dark/lightning maneuvers for cannibal blade, and if you have burts your going to have 100 tp by the time you get 3 fire maneuvers up anyways.

Verdict: Total fail
Suggestion: Change to regain
0 - 3 fire maneuvers adjusts regain from 1 to 10

Power cooler
Only viable for blm, and i cant stress how pointless that is. The blm is typically used for deploying with 3 ice up to nuke then deactivating, at best you use 2 nukes before you peel agro and have to deactivate before getting hit. If you use this with whm it will prioritize spells other then heals which you dont want, and cure vi would benefit far more for this then the blm does.

Verdict: Partial fail
Suggestion: Should have been a light attachment.

Barrage
No comment
Verdict: Total win, stacks with other wind based maneuvers to enhance Sharpshooter. Only thing better would be if it didnt consume maneuvers

Galvanizer
Only really good VE since you typically use SS with wind and VE for melee. That being said, it is a welcome tanking attachment and will go well with burts.
Verdict: Partial win
Suggestion: Only thing better would be if we could control pet WS, aka this with cannibal blade would be complete win

String Shredder
Great in theory.
Verdict: Depends, see suggestion
Suggestion: Since Fire, Light, Thunder, and Dark already trigger ws this will be Ice, water, or wind. All of which make me so very sad since it will be harder to trigger since none of those are used with VE. I cant stress how badly we need the ability to pick ws.

armor shatter
Seems to have potential. Wind maneuver is still free as a trigger, which would completely rock as the trigger, and at 4 hits were looking at 3-4k since armor piercer is already 2k.
Verdict: Potential for complete win
Suggestion: Will have to see how defense down compares to ignores defense, but again this will depend on the maneuver to trigger, again we totally need the ability to choose triggers for ws.

Then conversely you are grossly underestimating it...

Where in the update are you getting the tp consumption for the fire maneuver... are you saying this is how it is now? Or did they release updates to the update explaining exactly how the new fire attachment will function? You mention it "sounds like"... this is your opinion... and as such I suggest waiting until post-update... less chance of being disappointed...since you wouldn't have set your expectations unreasonably high.

Your opinions about the other attachments are great since that's how you play... hate to point out the obvious, but not all puppetmasters play the job the same way dude... so, making suggestions like what you've mentioned sorta boxes folks into Dfoley's way to play the job...which is abit obtuse.

The jobs greatest asset is it's ability to customize... and be creative with how to play the job... bandwagoning this job is not the best way to play or tell someone to play--because its very flexible.

Open your mind a bit and wait til the update is released to see how these things are implemented... only then can I suggest you state your opinion based on what YOU EXPERIENCE with regards to the update... cause it'll make much more sense.

[Dfoley]

I guess well work on your reading skill xiozen.

1) Heat Capacitor A fire-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Erases all Fire Maneuver effects to restore TP.

Where in the update are you getting the tp consumption for the fire maneuver.

Fire Attachment sounds like:
Consumes 1 fire maneuver to add 10 tp on deploy
Consumes 2 fire maneuvers to add 25 tp on deploy
Consumes 3 fire maneuvers to add 50 tp on deply

Not sure where you read that it consumes tp for a fire maneuver... AND I said it sounds like, as in I was assuming the tp gain, however no matter how much tp you gain its still pointless since i would never equip it over flame holder since they cancel each other out.

2) Yea i assume when you play pup you know how it works, and that when you want to heal you dont want ice maneuvers up, my bad, and I assume that you dont want your pet hit cause then you cant DAD you have to DEA and repair, then DAD again all of which costs time and DD. Its not just 'my way of playing', anyone who uses the blm and whm can tell you that.

[Lushipur]

The key word, you mentioned ...is fix... it doesn't make sense to me to include a "FIX" in an update announcement. SE has a history of "fixing" issues but not annouceing such fixes in these types of announcements. We're assuming the AI correction isn't being addressed primarily because it's not being announced. I believe enough of us have spoken about this issue and SE is already aware... why whine about something that is so glaringly obvious.

I suggest waiting until post-update to determine if a fix has been implemented "Ninja-style"...

you are right with the fix / update things but, for me, things was like this:

1) two months ago on twitter they said there was some big news for puppetmaster;
2) two moths pass tspeculating on forum about new frame, light/dark attach, new ws, ai fix and so on
3) update news finally arrive and...all of my (ours?) expectation are totally crushed

yes im exagerating a bit, but i really care about the job and would really see some pup love from SE after all this years of hatred :P

talking about the new fire attach, i really hope its stacks with other fire attach, so you consume fire man. and get both effects....and i really hope the new ws is fire triggered...im asking too much?

[xiozen]

"anyone who uses the blm and whm can tell you that...

Point in case... you speak for the entire player base... /wrists

[xiozen]

you are right with the fix / update things but, for me, things was like this:

1) two months ago on twitter they said there was some big news for puppetmaster;
2) two moths pass tspeculating on forum about new frame, light/dark attach, new ws, ai fix and so on
3) update news finally arrive and...all of my (ours?) expectation are totally crushed

yes im exagerating a bit, but i really care about the job and would really see some pup love from SE after all this years of hatred :P

talking about the new fire attach, i really hope its stacks with other fire attach, so you consume fire man. and get both effects....and i really hope the new ws is fire triggered...im asking too much?

Kudos, to you, yours is probably the most reasonable and well-thoughtout post yet regarding this...

Intelligent position to be in asking how the fire maneuver effects will impact other attachment effects and whether the consumption will take priority etc... I believe these are the questions and comments which will allow us to assist the Devs more than...other posts.

Kudos...to you.

[Anza]

I'd add that the Fire attachment is even more useless since it will trigger bad WS if you're not careful and have more fire up than the desired trigger maneuver. Arcuballista for SS, and Chimera Ripper for VE. Also, I would strongly suspect this attachment will work like Economizer and have a hidden timer (Economizer is 3 minutes), so that fire maneuvers will just sit there if the attachment is waiting on that hidden recast. Once the ability is ready for recast and the puppet is deployed, the puppet will consume the amount of active fire maneuvers. So getting full fire maneuvers up would often be a waste of time - this attachment would be best used by simply cycling in only one fire maneuver in your normal DD setup, but at a high cost of messing up your setup and hurting other useful fire attachments (Flame Holder, Tension Springs).

My breakdown of the attachments:
1. Galvanizer - nice addition to VE tanking. No real downside, except that using too many thunder maneuvers will cause unwanted String Clippers (and interfere with WS selection when tanking with VE using Cannibal Blade) so you won't be able to pump this up too much. I hope it takes only one thunder slot to pair it with Coiler/Dynamo.

2. Power Cooler - nothing special, but I guess it doesn't hurt to slap it on Spiritreaver if it costs only 1 ice slot (pair with the common Loudspeaker x2 and Ice Maker setup, which are 6/7 and always leave a free ice slot). At least maybe avoid an unnecessary Aspir when hitting the overly high MP threshold. For Soulsoother, I'd get minor use out of it sometimes - like when soloing stuff that isn't too hard and you're tossing enfeebles anyway (Tranquilizer + Ice to ensure they stick, running a light/ice/?? rotation). Fairly underwhelming, but whatever - I could see myself occasionally using it.

3. Barrage Turbine - I'm not so impressed. Consuming wind maneuvers is an annoying cost that hurts Turbo Charger and Scope, and the random nature makes it hard to predict hate spikes that might cause you to have an unwanted SS-tank. Plus, if the new WS is tied to wind maneuver, you might lose it unintentionally by having the automaton steal all of your wind maneuvers.

4. Heat Capacitor - utter trash, as described above

My breakdown of the weapon skills:

I'm reserving judgment on the SS WS - 4 hit ranged attack means the damage will probably be inconsistent due to missed hits, and might be lower damage overall than Armor Piercer anyway. It does have a nice party benefit with the defense down, so maybe that added effect will be the big calling card of this WS in the end, and Armor Piercer will remain as the pure damage WS.

String Shredder looks nice. Sort of an Ascetic's Fury for automaton - 2 hit, crit. Honestly, this + Burts makes me think I might default to VE for my all purpose DD automaton instead of SS. The downside is that VE now has FIVE WS, and triggering them is going to be obnoxious. Wind/Ice/Water/Earth are free now. For DD purposes, I'm using Wind anyway for Turbo Charger so if that's the associated element that would mean constant String Shredder. But no matter what maneuver, it makes it harder to trigger Cannibal Blade and use the other attachments you want, which is a significant hindrance to Burt-tanking with the very important Cannibal Blade spam.

One of my key points from the "Letter to the devs" here in the forum is stressed again. The system of choosing WS based on dominant maneuver is getting very much out of hand. For VE in particular, with 5 different WS it's now going to be very difficult to strengthen desired attachments while still getting the preferred WS. Big problem. I'd be perfectly fine with a fix where you can choose your own trigger maneuver for each WS based on your own preference - even if you can't do it on the fly, I'd be fine having to go to an NPC in town or do it in the mog house.

[xbobx]

I agree completely what you said. Would be nice if you could lock in two ws, and choose their triggers in town.

[Glamdring]

to those complaining about the AI, these are actual job changes, not tech support, and those items are not classed as job changes. when we see the announcement after updates it usually falls in the "known issues" or "system changes" section. if there is to be a change to AI I would expect it to be posted in a issues post.

Of course, it's possible the AI is not broken but is working exactly as SE intended and the "flaws" are intentional and for game balance...

[xbobx]

"Of course, it's possible the AI is not broken but is working exactly as SE intended and the "flaws" are intentional and for game balance... "

I hope they dont consider this since the fellows are smarter then the puppets. I see what you are saying about not being mentioned, that they are not a job adj. But considering they have been broken since day one, Players have been complaining about it since day one, SE themselves have said they were not working as intended during of of the festivals, it probably should be mentioned in the job adjustments