(IDEA) Increasing the Support Job level cap to EQUAL main job level!

[Atomic_Skull]

Just no.
It would not just break balances, but the entire job system. Even raising regular job caps over 75 is stressing the system.
And even if you limited to 1 job you could use unrestricted, it wouldn't end up as cool as it sounds. NMs get double jobs because they are not player characters and don't really need to be balanced.

Attestation NM's in Dynamis have three jobs. Quiebitiel is BLM/WHM/BRD for example.

[Andylynn]

This thread is awful and should be locked.

[Krisan]

I am in total agreement that the op suggestion is completely off the wall. (Which is obvious if you read my earlier posts).
I just don't find the third job idea to be applicable either.

PLD/NIN/WAR is probably the least troublesome of what I listed. Being that we might see NIN/PLD/WAR as well or NIN/DNC/WAR (which frankly, would be more powerful than PLD/NIN/WAR in many ways). I only mentioned it because it was the example used.

What of MNK/DRK/WAR or MNK/DRK/DNC?
That would be extremely overpowered in terms of job combos that would be available to other jobs. SAM/DRG/WAR would be powerful but it wouldn't even come close to the MNK combos (Double Attack stacks with Jump), at the very least that combo would be getting TP at a ridiculous rate (as in, more tp than anyone would be able to use fast enough). The cap at which a human could pull off the weaponskills fast enough would hinder the job combo as a whole and make it significantly less effective than the MNK combos.

Right, there are a lot of problems with the idea, which is why I said I didn't fully agree with it myself. I don't think it would be completely impossible to balance though, perhaps just by making certain things from the third job inaccessible. (There is precedence for this, what with Afflatus Solace\Misery, and some others I think.)

As for /SMN, it really hasn't been relevant since scholar was released, 3 years ago. Abyssea has nothing to do with that. Even then, it was only subbed on WHM and only for Auto Refresh, to try to bring WHM up to RDM in terms of being able to solo heal a party on birds and the like.

Well as I said, it's a relic sub. I'm aware of this, and my Abyssea example was only to exemplify the fact that it is indeed a relic. It was worthless as soon as SCH came about, really. I only mentioned it because the sub did have some use for a good many years, and I think that counts for something. Times change and things become more or less practical over that time, new things are introduced and old things phased out.. Implementing a system from the get-go where a good many jobs wouldn't be useful subs on the other hand.. that's just meh.

That doesn't really change the other examples either: PUP, COR, BRD, etc.

DRG would be a massive problem due to their af/relic/emp gears and how they can affect the wyvern's sub job and breaths. (Not to mention other balance issues).

Admittedly, I can't think of too many examples where PUP, COR, or BRD were ever useful for anything as a sub. COR and BRD though are like two sides of the same coin, and are in a kind of unique class of their own - I don't think they were ever designed as being subs and were meant as exceptions. PUP I think is just an unfortunate victim of the system and doesn't really fit in anywhere with how the game is actually played.

As for DRG I really don't know. I'm not here to iron out every detail of this idea, as I've already said that I don't fully support the notion myself. If this idea were meant to fly, it would be up to SE to figure out things like this. (And I imagine they could, if they wanted to.)

As for /BST, I'm honestly suprised how many people don't know about it's sub job capabilities. The way SE figured it was that it wouldn't be as effective as maining BST because of jugpets being BST only. This still doesn't change that any job could and still can sub beastmaster effectively, and charm mobs easily so long as their BST, as a main job would be equal to or higher than the job they are subbing it on. BRD's used to sub it to solo since they could charm enemies with a song and with a job ability, not to mention their naturally high CHR (plus CHR based gears). I've seen a few PLD/BSTs in my day too. Still, it gets largely overlooked for some reason, especially these days. Which would likely change should they add such an idea as second tier sub jobs.

I just had no idea. That example with BRD actually sounds kind of kickass to tell the truth, I ought to try that sometime.. I think the reason people don't realize this though, is because it's probably the sole exception where anything like this occurs. It's also kind of bizarre, I guess? There's nothing in the game itself to suggest it would be this way, so no one would ever have any idea about this until they tried it for themselves. (And I imagine most people just never thought to try it themselves, what with not seeing the practicality of a BST sub.)

I'm surprised honestly, and I thought I knew all the little quirks in this game since forever ago.

What they really need to do is allow a way to change sub jobs in the field. This seems like a far more balanced approach to the matter. Switching Main Jobs while in the field? No, that's too much, not to mention gear constraints even if it is feasible with mog satchel/sack.

This is a much better idea overall, I think. I'd love this, so very much. It would be awesome on some jobs like SMN, what with being able to use /SCH for soloing or what not, and having the option of switching to /WHM when called off into an event or a party.. and then being able to /BLM after the day is done, so I can actually warp myself home. That would be glorious.

[Mirage]

There should probably be a cooldown on changing subjobs in the field. If not, you could end up with people (especially mages, because they don't need to engage the mob) changing subjobs several times during the same NM fight. RDM with elemental seal, divine seal, accession, light/dark arts, stun, who knows what else?

Idk though, sounds too exploitable to be implemented. It doesn't take that much time to go back home to change your sub anyway.

As for changing to /blm for warp. What seems like a better idea for that would be to just make warp scrolls a buy-once item with enchantment-warp and a 15-30 minute cooldown on. They are "free" already, only reason people don't always have one is because they forget to pick one up.

[Zyeriis]

I was thinking more along the lines of a warp cudgel like item for sub changing in the field. Naturally, not a ridiculous recast like the warp cudgel but maybe like once per hour or two? I never intended on that idea being exploitable in combat. A 1 hour cool down job ability for all jobs or something or an option in the menu?

They could do something like an exp band too (except with a lower recast timer) that you need to charge once per conquest week but have limited charges for (won't say a specific number of charges as I wouldn't know). There's plenty of ways to do this without breaking the game like that.

Edit: Also note that you lose buffs when changing your sub job as it is right now. I don't see how this would change if you were out in the field and able to change your sub job. Thus the argument that people could exploit it by stacking buffs is null and void, unless you count AoE buffs, in which case, that's what the timer/cooldown is for (it may not even need be as extreme as 1 hour however).

[Mirage]

Your own buffs disappear, yeah, but not the debuffs you put on the enemy or others. RDM Elemental seal sleep, then change to /sch to give the entire party stoneskin .

[Bustax]

I like the Main/Sub/Sub idea a lot more than this, way too broken.

Though I would support MAX level cap to be 100 for this to be efficient in any way or even allow 3rd job cap at 30.

Main100/Support50/(3rd)25

A few jobs come to mind:
PLD/NIN/WAR

WHM/RDM/BLU

WAR/SAM/DRK

RNG/WAR/NIN

THF/WAR/NIN