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  1. #1
    Player Shinook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    9
    Character
    Iamaman
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99

    Issues with Odyssey's entry requirements

    Of all the battle content that has been added since I started playing again, I find Odyssey the most artificially frustrating and difficult to deal with. I've observed that without certain well geared jobs and an established static, it is near impossible to progress at a reasonable rate.

    The current requirements force the player community into a few habits, which are a detriment IMO:

    1. Only a few specific jobs are used - In a game with a really interesting and diverse job system, it is a shame that we only see a handful of these jobs accepted into segfarm parties. The entry requirements are so restrictive that people don't want to take chances since they have a 20hr window to get back in again. So for those of us with well geared jobs that aren't a part of that list, we hit a brick wall with progression without gearing something else.

    2. People get into statics and stick with those groups - This has been a theme in 11 since I started playing many years ago, so it isn't uncommon to see statics, the problem is that even when there were exp statics, farming statics, etc in years past, there were plenty of other ways to reach your goals in the past without a static. It was just easier and more effective with one. In Odyssey, it is near impossible to get anywhere with a PUG and those are uncommon since the majority of the well geared players are already in one.

    3. High requirements for groups - The 20hr wait to get back in for farming segments means people want to be as efficient as possible, which is reasonable, but this leaves little opportunity for people that aren't near BiS for the few jobs that people want for these segment farms. Most PUG shouts I see are for R15 heavy DD jobs, which is excessively restrictive IMO, but is reasonable given that they want to get the best out of the group

    What this ultimately means is that without one of a few jobs geared near BiS, getting segments is painfully slow and inefficient. What I find the most irritating is the job limitations people are forced into. I see a lot of folks online discussing playing a job they don't like solely to gear and play the ones that they do. IMO with a game with such a diverse job system, it shouldn't be that way, but especially it shouldn't be so restrictive that it is limited to fewer than half the jobs the game offers.

    I know restrictive entry timers are nothing new in this game and go back to the beginning, but the difference is that at least then, you didn't have to be as heavily geared since the content allowed more players, which allowed for more variation.

    So while I'm not advocating that Odyssey be entirely made 18 man (we all know that'll end up with 12 man merc teams for Bumba) or made easier, I think something should be done to allow the player base to change up the strategy or allow for more variations in jobs. I expect this was the idea behind the 3 MPII entry requirements and job locks in Gaol, but it doesn't really help with A/B/C. I get that it is end game content and it should remain difficult to do and not hand it to you, but I think it should allow for players to take more advantage of what the game provides in terms of classes and allow more variation.

    I had a few thoughts about how this might happen:

    1. Relax the entry requirements to A/B/C (e.g. an Omen type system that allows multiple entries across a period of time)
    2. Provide a job change system similar to Sheol Gaol that provides substantial time extensions for changing and locking jobs in a seg farm
    3. Ease the segment requirements for entering Sheol Gaol
    4. Allow alliances in A/B/C only (not Gaol), but scale difficulty based on the # of players or parties

    Not sure what to conclude with, but I feel like this system should change to allow more diversity in classes and not force players to level one of 8 classes just to gear jobs they like to play better.
    (4)

  2. #2
    Player Coffeegood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    40
    Character
    Coffeegood
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99

    Agreed and adding 1 more thing multiple of our top LS's on server agree on

    Adjust the amount of Moglephone charges stored on NPC to at least 3 or more.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player Shinook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    9
    Character
    Iamaman
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeegood View Post
    Adjust the amount of Moglephone charges stored on NPC to at least 3 or more.
    Agree completely! That would relax the requirement that you be there every day, as well, making it easier for folks with weird schedules to get into static groups.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player Dzspdref's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    313
    Character
    Danallen
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Add a restriction that you cannot enter the Sheol using a job you have used in the last 3 times you have entered previously....
    For example: you enter on Monday as Thief.
    Wednesday comes; you cannot enter as Thief but MUST choose another main job to enter, so you choose BLM.
    Friday comes along, you cannot enter as THF nor BLM, so you choose PLD.
    Next enter on Monday, You cannot enter as THF or BLM or PLD, so you go as WHM.
    Wednesday rolls around again; you cannot enter as BLM, PLD, nor WHM, so you go back onto THF.
    This forces players to allow others to access segments to other jobs, or makes you more flexible in your game abilities; OR allows OTHER players to join in as a wanted job you THINK you need in order to proceed.

    FYI: my group has gone in with BRD, PUP, WHM, DRG, DNC, RDM and beaten them all. So if you THINK you need a heavy DD dealing job for insta-wins, you are sadly mistaken. ANY job is useful in there we have found out.
    We even went in as DNC, BRD, DRK, THF, WHM, BLM with only slight problems.
    Only elitist stuck up snobs who don't know HOW to play the game on other jobs are not enjoying it to their fullest. We feel sad for them
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player VoiceMemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    631
    Character
    Voicememo
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Those groups can work but what was the segment result? The reason why people go with set jobs/party composition is to maximize the amount of segments gained since KI is limited to 1 every 20 real hours. Since the costs for mooglephone2 and amplifiers are static, it's about efficiency of maximizing the segment gain per KI.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player Shinook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    9
    Character
    Iamaman
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Dzspdref View Post
    Add a restriction that you cannot enter the Sheol using a job you have used in the last 3 times you have entered previously....
    For example: you enter on Monday as Thief.
    Wednesday comes; you cannot enter as Thief but MUST choose another main job to enter, so you choose BLM.
    Friday comes along, you cannot enter as THF nor BLM, so you choose PLD.
    Next enter on Monday, You cannot enter as THF or BLM or PLD, so you go as WHM.
    Wednesday rolls around again; you cannot enter as BLM, PLD, nor WHM, so you go back onto THF.
    This forces players to allow others to access segments to other jobs, or makes you more flexible in your game abilities; OR allows OTHER players to join in as a wanted job you THINK you need in order to proceed.

    FYI: my group has gone in with BRD, PUP, WHM, DRG, DNC, RDM and beaten them all. So if you THINK you need a heavy DD dealing job for insta-wins, you are sadly mistaken. ANY job is useful in there we have found out.
    We even went in as DNC, BRD, DRK, THF, WHM, BLM with only slight problems.
    Only elitist stuck up snobs who don't know HOW to play the game on other jobs are not enjoying it to their fullest. We feel sad for them
    I think it would make sense to do this if there was a bonus applied (or penalty) to the number of segments, but not force it on everyone. I think if it was globally forced, then it would lead to other frustrations with people having to fully gear multiple jobs to participate or get into statics. That'd further lead to a decrease in the number of segments and increase in the ceiling to get anywhere.

    I also think changing it so it is some kind of change that is made in-instance would prevent people from just rotating jobs and going the next day, similar to the mechanic in Sheol Gaol, where the current combination of jobs is locked and you can change to a different composition to receive bonuses/time extensions/extra floors/etc.

    Agreed on the not needing heavy DD jobs, but the skill and gear ceiling on those is lower than others, which I think drives people to stick with a known formula. I've had good segment runs with different group compositions than the norm, but not as many players are geared to make those compositions work or as familiar with the jobs. The lockout makes experimentation difficult, also, and I've had runs where damage was lower because I was trying to figure out which weaponskills to use against which mobs, so for jobs that aren't as straightforward (e.g. NIN), you have to temporarily accept a weaker result to keep up with jobs that don't require as much testing. The gear for some is also a sortof chicken and egg problem, where you need augmented high tier Odyssey gear to keep up in C runs, but can't get it with the job. IMO these common combinations are used because they are simpler and easier to make work, but the current Odyssey model sortof forces that for the highest efficiency.
    (1)
    Last edited by Shinook; 08-01-2021 at 03:38 AM.

  7. #7
    Player Dzspdref's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    313
    Character
    Danallen
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by VoiceMemo View Post
    Those groups can work but what was the segment result? The reason why people go with set jobs/party composition is to maximize the amount of segments gained since KI is limited to 1 every 20 real hours. Since the costs for mooglephone2 and amplifiers are static, it's about efficiency of maximizing the segment gain per KI.
    Segments drops were lower... but more importantly we HAD FUN !!!

    I remember your Dynamis leadership and in the shell sometimes i'd usually be the only WHM, or I'd have the luxury of keeping tank alive. BOY was it hectic some days, but damn it WAS fun! That's always more important to me than the "Oh my let's get everything possible as fast as we can even if we hate doing it." attitude I see so much of nowadays. None of the "newer" players have patience for anything anymore it seems.
    (0)
    Last edited by Dzspdref; 08-02-2021 at 09:36 AM.

  8. #8
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    8,025
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Upvoted and agreed. The system should encourage, not discourage, varying group compositions to play. As someone who always fell in love with the least popular jobs in the game, this has always frustrated me.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player VoiceMemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    631
    Character
    Voicememo
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Dzspdref View Post
    Segments drops were lower... but more importantly we HAD FUN !!!

    I remember your Dynamis leadership and in the shell sometimes i'd usually be the only WHM, or I'd have the luxury of keeping tank alive. BOY was it hectic some days, but damn it WAS fun! That's always more important to me than the "Oh my let's get everything possible as fast as we can even if we hate doing it." attitude I see so much of nowadays. None of the "newer" players have patience for anything anymore it seems.
    Fun is relative though. This is also why I formed my static the way I did, where certain people always want to be certain jobs, IE DD or mage. Like for me if i could brd all the time I would. But with the way the amplifier works you need multiple jobs that are geared.

    For me I have fun when strats work out and we win, when we lose we figure out what went wrong and adjust for it.
    (1)