[dev1009] Seriously.... how could you make the HNM system worse...

[Catsby]

Are there going to be an endless flow of people with 99 KS for more than 2 days? Not likely. Are people going to whine that its to hard to get people after that. Why not.

What are you basing this off of? I've seen shouts for KSNM even recently and I know people who do BCNMs for kraken club on almost a weekly basis. People stockpile massive amounts of seals from magian trials and that 1-30 pre abyssea grind. If it's the progression from KSNM battlefield to Kings you are worried there will probably be a DD-DD-Healer-Support paradigm thrown together a week after the update takes place to ensure that more than 6 people wont be needed to successfuly win but will be encouraged to knock out more orbs at a time.

[Karbuncle]

I'll admit i didn't read every post, but i agree w/ the OP on the point that i don't think this is going to help anything. I cannot get 6 people together to do a KS 30 let alone 18 or so for KS 99. What i will say is that the 1 KS BS or KC in pool per pt is bullshit, i have a Screeny of 4 KC's in pool in an EXP alliance in abyssea - mis coast, if no one believes me. I took it with my camera because i can't figure out how to get the damn things off my pc. This was before, as you can see, they changed the look of the KC.


Proof positive ^.

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or I'm not reading you right on the first part but

KSNM30's/99's haven't needed 6-18 people since ... Ever.

Most KSNM99's could be done with 12 or less back at 75, now adays people have solo'd the Wyrm one. I solo'd KSNM30's on my PLD (lol ODS) back at 80. was possible at 75 IIRC.

But anyway sure as heck don't need 6-18 people, You could probably do most/all of them with ~5/6 or less.

[Mittenz]

What are you basing this off of? I've seen shouts for KSNM even recently and I know people who do BCNMs for kraken club on almost a weekly basis. People stockpile massive amounts of seals from magian trials and that 1-30 pre abyssea grind. If it's the progression from KSNM battlefield to Kings you are worried there will probably be a DD-DD-Healer-Support paradigm thrown together a week after the update takes place to ensure that more than 6 people wont be needed to successfuly win but will be encouraged to knock out more orbs at a time.

Kings are a total joke to kill tbh the KS99's are harder than the NQ Kings and I would rate Wyrm as harder than even hogg. but you dont get KS from 1-30 or in abyssea magian trials while that results in some I am sure most even when stockpiling most will have maybe 5 chances at the NQ and if you look the way its shown is that the drops for the NQ from KS99 are 100% then below that it shows the drops that pop the HQ (hello PW from ZNM) (so assume its about a 20% average drop same as the spawning of it). So 5 shots maybe 1 chance on average for the HQ how long do you think that will last. Maybe on your server KS30 shouts are common I have not seen one on mine since the cap was 75 and a majority of my time is spent sitting in the shout areas watching for interesting things.

Inb4 400 people on FFXIAH posting (OMG MY POP ITEM WAS NINJAED DONT GO WITH THIS GUY)

[Karbuncle]

So, You're angry cause you're making up numbers (I.e you're saying 20% pop for HQ) and complaining about it.

Got it.

really though, You have no idea what you're talking about. No one knows what the Drop-rate for HQ Kings will be. The update notes also specify that we may get more than 1 NQ pop per KSNM. SO maybe i'll make up some numbers too.

See, Lets base it off Dynamis! Mobs have a chance to drop multiple Currency! so the way i see it, Each KSNM will drop 1-4 Pop items from fafnir! And Since Joyeuse has ~99% drop rate, I think the HQ pop will too. So now each KSNM we have 4 chances at fafnir and 99.96 chance at 4 nidhoggs. This update is amazing.

...

Not so fun when you're getting imaginary numbers thrown at you in the form of an argument is it?

Basically what I'm saying is you should wait the update, the biggest problem is the Unknowns, We don't know how nerfed the BB item drop rate is, We dont know how many Pop items you can get per fight, We don't know if the're R(Sellable) or EX, we don't know a lot of things.

[Mittenz]

So, You're angry cause you're making up numbers (I.e you're saying 20% pop for HQ) and complaining about it.

Got it.

really though, You have no idea what you're talking about. No one knows what the Drop-rate for HQ Kings will be. The update notes also specify that we may get more than 1 NQ pop per KSNM. SO maybe i'll make up some numbers too.

See, Lets base it off Dynamis! Mobs have a chance to drop multiple Currency! so the way i see it, Each KSNM will drop 1-4 Pop items from fafnir! And Since Joyeuse has ~99% drop rate, I think the HQ pop will too. So now each KSNM we have 4 chances at fafnir and 3.96% chance at nidhogg. This update is amazing.

...

Not so fun when you're getting imaginary numbers thrown at you in the form of an argument is it?

thats about what its spawn rate is currently if you want to go into drop rates based on previous popped HNM like VNM or PW drops we can say it will be 5-10% my numbers are based on previous experiences with their way of handling popped "HNM'"s not completely just lets throw this here and that there.

[Karbuncle]

thats about what its spawn rate is currently if you want to go into drop rates based on previous popped HNM like VNM or PW drops we can say it will be 5-10%

Yah but they're too entirely different systems. they have no relation outside of "Forced pop" aspect.

If you wanna make a fair argument, why not base it on Abyssea Pop items? They all require farming of pop items, same as ZNM. Except their drop rate is pretty solid. I can kill the Buffalo NM 5 times and get 3-4 items for the tiger with TH6 on.

My point is its an Unknown, We can't judge a system based on Unknown information.

[Dais]

I just want to extend my heartfelt thanks to the dev team for finally making this change. I was hoping for this to become a reality every single update a few years ago.
It may be a few years too late but I think the boting issue will finally be resolved. I have a few hundred kindred seals ready and waiting to help me make progress toward getting a defending ring at long last.

In regards to ninja lotting items: you could always just quartermaster your own orb.

[Catsby]

arbitrary numbers for features that don't exist yet

You need to stop looking at this so subjectively. People get tons of Kindred seals doing their own stuff and things. Keep in mind that servers are merging soon so there will be plenty of new linkshells and pickup groups to participate with.

In your defense though you have plenty of reason to get upset prematurely. FFXI devs don't openly test their prototypes and when they do test something it's so unscientific that there's no surprise when the new content turns out to be a waste of time.

[Mittenz]

Yah but they're too entirely different systems. they have no relation outside of "Forced pop" aspect.

If you wanna make a fair argument, why not base it on Abyssea Pop items? They all require farming of pop items, same as ZNM. Except their drop rate is pretty solid. I can kill the Buffalo NM 5 times and get 3-4 items for the tiger with TH6 on.

My point is its an Unknown, We can't judge a system based on Unknown information.

You can tend to base things around previous history of similar types. This applies to both real life and this game. VNM's still even in abyssea have a horrid upgrade rate and this was the last thing they introduced as an HNM addition (at least in the sense they stated "New HNM's") This is also based on their current workings of said system having a 4-8 day wait (put 20% as an average just to work with a half decent number so i dont have something like 29.44347%) I am allowed to have as objective a point as I wish rather than getting my hopes up. its better to use what you have rather than get all hopeful to be let down by yet another fail system that makes this game worse than it is previously.

[Mittenz]

You need to stop looking at this so subjectively. People get tons of Kindred seals doing their own stuff and things. Keep in mind that servers are merging soon so there will be plenty of new linkshells and pickup groups to participate with.

In your defense though you have plenty of reason to get upset prematurely. FFXI devs don't openly test their prototypes and when they do test something it's so unscientific that there's no surprise when the new content turns out to be a waste of time.

My server was merged in the first wave and the population has already dropped to below what it was pre merger. ; ;