[dev1009] Seriously.... how could you make the HNM system worse...

[Mittenz]

Looks like it's going to be as inaccessible as anything these days. I see shout groups for bosses all the time so I don't know why this wouldn't make kings easier. Slower? maybe.

Zone bosses take 15mins to get a pop set for most drop things people want (empy items atma etc) takes 3mins to kill and everyone goes seperate ways.

KS30 I gave up after 5hrs of shouting to get a group together when it was actually still worth something (Royal Ramble) can't imagine how annoying after spending days farming for 1 KS99 orb its gonna be to try and get a group together that can kill the KS99 then kill faf and then if lucky kill hogg (or other kings whatever works for you)

sorry you can't really compair a king vs a zone boss in terms of time and ease

[Catsby]

Zone bosses take 15mins to get a pop set for most drop things people want (empy items atma etc) takes 3mins to kill and everyone goes seperate ways.

KS30 I gave up after 5hrs of shouting to get a group together when it was actually still worth something (Royal Ramble) can't imagine how annoying after spending days farming for 1 KS99 orb its gonna be to try and get a group together that can kill the KS99 then kill faf and then if lucky kill hogg (or other kings whatever works for you)

sorry you can't really compair a king vs a zone boss in terms of time and ease

Except you can. While current in demand content is higher level and more "difficult" it's evened out by atmas, brew and an seemingly never ending stream of people who want to do it. Every day I log in there are shout groups for Rani, +2 mat bosses and other NM hunts. I know because I spent a week doing it for an empyrean weapon trial and witnessing others doing it as well. Fafnir and Co. should be just as easy when the update comes because it's going to be in a spotlight for everyone to see. The simple idea that you don't need to camp for king items anymore is like an electric can opener in a crazy old cat lady's house. We can also pretty much guarantee that no changes will be made to the monsters involved in the new system. Remember that these things were taken down by one or two parties of players at level 75 when merits and awesome gear were hard to find. These days top gear can be gotten by pick up groups and getting 20 merit points in a day is as simple as standing by a dominion sergeant NPC. In other words, pick up groups are going to destroy kings ( I would love to be proven wrong though)

[Mittenz]

Except you can. While current in demand content is higher level and more "difficult" it's evened out by atmas, brew and an seemingly never ending stream of people who want to do it. Every day I log in there are shout groups for Rani, +2 mat bosses and other NM hunts. I know because I spent a week doing it for an empyrean weapon trial and witnessing others doing it as well. Fafnir and Co. should be just as easy when the update comes because it's going to be in a spotlight for everyone to see. The simple idea that you don't need to camp for king items anymore is like an electric can opener in a crazy old cat lady's house. We can also pretty much guarantee that no changes will be made to the monsters involved in the new system. Remember that these things were taken down by one or two parties of players at level 75 when merits and awesome gear were hard to find. These days top gear can be gotten by pick up groups and getting 20 merit points in a day is as simple as standing by a dominion sergeant NPC. In other words, pick up groups are going to destroy kings ( I would love to be proven wrong though)

can they kill the king? Sure. Can you go into KS99 with a bunch of people who you never met. Yep can they win with the right jobs? Of course! Are there going to be an endless flow of people with 99 KS for more than 2 days? Not likely. Are people going to whine that its to hard to get people after that. Why not.

[Catsby]

Are there going to be an endless flow of people with 99 KS for more than 2 days? Not likely. Are people going to whine that its to hard to get people after that. Why not.

What are you basing this off of? I've seen shouts for KSNM even recently and I know people who do BCNMs for kraken club on almost a weekly basis. People stockpile massive amounts of seals from magian trials and that 1-30 pre abyssea grind. If it's the progression from KSNM battlefield to Kings you are worried there will probably be a DD-DD-Healer-Support paradigm thrown together a week after the update takes place to ensure that more than 6 people wont be needed to successfuly win but will be encouraged to knock out more orbs at a time.

[Karbuncle]

So, You're angry cause you're making up numbers (I.e you're saying 20% pop for HQ) and complaining about it.

Got it.

really though, You have no idea what you're talking about. No one knows what the Drop-rate for HQ Kings will be. The update notes also specify that we may get more than 1 NQ pop per KSNM. SO maybe i'll make up some numbers too.

See, Lets base it off Dynamis! Mobs have a chance to drop multiple Currency! so the way i see it, Each KSNM will drop 1-4 Pop items from fafnir! And Since Joyeuse has ~99% drop rate, I think the HQ pop will too. So now each KSNM we have 4 chances at fafnir and 99.96 chance at 4 nidhoggs. This update is amazing.

...

Not so fun when you're getting imaginary numbers thrown at you in the form of an argument is it?

Basically what I'm saying is you should wait the update, the biggest problem is the Unknowns, We don't know how nerfed the BB item drop rate is, We dont know how many Pop items you can get per fight, We don't know if the're R(Sellable) or EX, we don't know a lot of things.

[Mittenz]

So, You're angry cause you're making up numbers (I.e you're saying 20% pop for HQ) and complaining about it.

Got it.

really though, You have no idea what you're talking about. No one knows what the Drop-rate for HQ Kings will be. The update notes also specify that we may get more than 1 NQ pop per KSNM. SO maybe i'll make up some numbers too.

See, Lets base it off Dynamis! Mobs have a chance to drop multiple Currency! so the way i see it, Each KSNM will drop 1-4 Pop items from fafnir! And Since Joyeuse has ~99% drop rate, I think the HQ pop will too. So now each KSNM we have 4 chances at fafnir and 3.96% chance at nidhogg. This update is amazing.

...

Not so fun when you're getting imaginary numbers thrown at you in the form of an argument is it?

thats about what its spawn rate is currently if you want to go into drop rates based on previous popped HNM like VNM or PW drops we can say it will be 5-10% my numbers are based on previous experiences with their way of handling popped "HNM'"s not completely just lets throw this here and that there.

[Karbuncle]

thats about what its spawn rate is currently if you want to go into drop rates based on previous popped HNM like VNM or PW drops we can say it will be 5-10%

Yah but they're too entirely different systems. they have no relation outside of "Forced pop" aspect.

If you wanna make a fair argument, why not base it on Abyssea Pop items? They all require farming of pop items, same as ZNM. Except their drop rate is pretty solid. I can kill the Buffalo NM 5 times and get 3-4 items for the tiger with TH6 on.

My point is its an Unknown, We can't judge a system based on Unknown information.

[Mittenz]

Yah but they're too entirely different systems. they have no relation outside of "Forced pop" aspect.

If you wanna make a fair argument, why not base it on Abyssea Pop items? They all require farming of pop items, same as ZNM. Except their drop rate is pretty solid. I can kill the Buffalo NM 5 times and get 3-4 items for the tiger with TH6 on.

My point is its an Unknown, We can't judge a system based on Unknown information.

You can tend to base things around previous history of similar types. This applies to both real life and this game. VNM's still even in abyssea have a horrid upgrade rate and this was the last thing they introduced as an HNM addition (at least in the sense they stated "New HNM's") This is also based on their current workings of said system having a 4-8 day wait (put 20% as an average just to work with a half decent number so i dont have something like 29.44347%) I am allowed to have as objective a point as I wish rather than getting my hopes up. its better to use what you have rather than get all hopeful to be let down by yet another fail system that makes this game worse than it is previously.

[Karbuncle]

You can tend to base things around previous history of similar types. This applies to both real life and this game. VNM's still even in abyssea have a horrid upgrade rate and this was the last thing they introduced as an HNM addition (at least in the sense they stated "New HNM's") This is also based on their current workings of said system having a 4-8 day wait (put 20% as an average just to work with a half decent number so i dont have something like 29.44347%) I am allowed to have as objective a point as I wish rather than getting my hopes up. its better to use what you have rather than get all hopeful to be let down by yet another fail system that makes this game worse than it is previously.

You can use as many numbers as you want but it doesn't change the fact you're making baseless assumptions without Proof behind them as this is a completely unknown system.

you're not basing it off of "Similar types", you're basing it off a Completely different system as pessimistically as you can. Why don't you include the fact for your little ZNM argument that Every single ZNM before the 3-big ones have 100% upgrade rate? Or maybe as i said earlier, how most Heroes Abyssea NMs have a ~70% Chance to drop their (R) Pop item for the next tier NM.

The only thing ZNM and this new system have in common is they're both system where you do something, get something, and pop something. Which is basically a large chunk of FFXI. Plus, The ZNM system was designed by a different Dev team, Who's painfully broom-rape ways have lost since passed. We have every right to believe they might pull this off.

So I'll stick to this as my Final Answer: You're assumptions have no base, You're pulling numbers from the most negative aspects of Old events from old dev teams and using them as an excuse to hate an event you know nothing about outside of how to pop said NMs.

You really should just Wait for the update. It has the chance to surprise us. I don't think they handled it the best way, but i also think it shows some promise. the only thing holding it back is the current Unknowns.

[Dais]

I just want to extend my heartfelt thanks to the dev team for finally making this change. I was hoping for this to become a reality every single update a few years ago.
It may be a few years too late but I think the boting issue will finally be resolved. I have a few hundred kindred seals ready and waiting to help me make progress toward getting a defending ring at long last.

In regards to ninja lotting items: you could always just quartermaster your own orb.