Adding Charge system to summoner?

[RabidSquirrel]

I say screw the blood pacts all together. Just let us use each skill individually with their own individual cooldown based on the ability's effectiveness. I'd only be against this charge system because all it allows is for greater spike damage and not consistent damage, which I believe is what's needed. And you can't have consistent damage when all of your abilities are on the same cooldown.

[Soundwave]

Wait, what are you trying to say? You don't want SMN to be both a DD and Support Job but its ok to be universal?

By the way, what is wrong with being both? Avatars can put out some mean damage and tank for a little while, or put up some nice buffs and help keep the party going for a while. It can even do both at the same time. What is wrong with that situation we are in?

Besides, last I checked, Garuda is still the only thing that can cast AoE Haste.

I stated this only from certain point of view, I know we are universal and will always be universal...I understand we have hastega always have since smn first came out.

When I made this post I was interested in the idea of a JA that could effect both Rage/Ward hence making our wards a bit more portent but of course wont be as good as other jobs buffs etc.

In the end we will always have Wards that mimic other jobs, minus "hastega" the potency is not up to par with other jobs that can do them as well. however its nice to have these at our disposable. Use wards if you want to I do, and I'm not telling you not to...This is just how I feel a summoners stand atm.

And very last would be nice to have a very unique buff/ward that is a bit different from other jobs one that could stand out more than your normal aoe cure/MAB/something that does not rely on the moon..etc.

[Korpg]

When I made this post I was interested in the idea of a JA that could effect both Rage/Ward hence making our wards a bit more portent but of course wont be as good as other jobs buffs etc.

I don't understand. Our Stoneskins are stronger than most WHM's stoneskins, last longer, and don't use up as much MP. And recasting it doesn't require us to wait 2 minutes (2 charges for WHM/SCH) to recast.

Our Blinks are more powerful than the standard Blink. Phalanx is about the same as Phalanx II, our Haste gives the same amount of Haste, but for 5 minutes longer than a WHM, RDM (casting on others), or a SCH can give, and we have access to other buffs, like Movement Speed+, Evasion/Accuracy Up, and....whatever you want to call "Earthen Armor" ability. Would that be "deathly damage" or "trying to stay alive in case of a blowup" type of ability?

In the end we will always have Wards that mimic other jobs, minus "hastega" the potency is not up to par with other jobs that can do them as well. however its nice to have these at our disposable. Use wards if you want to I do, and I'm not telling you not to...This is just how I feel a summoners stand atm.

And very last would be nice to have a very unique buff/ward that is a bit different from other jobs one that could stand out more than your normal aoe cure/MAB/something that does not rely on the moon..etc.

Wards are just one half of the Avatar spectrum. Besides, we still have Ramuh's Blood Pact: Ward new ability to get at 91. Lets see what we will be getting. Here's hoping to Crit hit rate (or damage) up for 180 seconds initially (same timer as Haste for us now).

[Soundwave]

So now when your talking about charges are you talking about the idea of the thread charges or the actual SCH charges in the game as of now?

Also I've yet to see somebody really survive from a deadly attack, I've asked constantly in my ls if they even notice it as a tank...and sadly nobody has or it just goes by un-noticed, which sadly I think i stated in another thread that I enjoyed Diamond storm.

However I think SE is heading in the right direction with these newer Wards, but I just don't think the wards as of now can meet up to their expectations to be counted as a "I'm counting on you to get the job done." Oh shit somebody died and it was my fault.

What I'm trying to say is everything may sound good on paper but its just not practical with whats used in game play today that I see. I'd like to see more unique ways for Wards.

Before I forget, this is very similar to the Spirit thread in general section...Spirits should not be more powerful than BP Rage as you said0. With that....its almost the same concept really.

[Korpg]

So now when your talking about charges are you talking about the idea of the thread charges or the actual SCH charges in the game as of now?

Also I've yet to see somebody really survive from a deadly attack, I've asked constantly in my ls if they even notice it as a tank...and sadly nobody has or it just goes by un-noticed, which sadly I think i stated in another thread that I enjoyed Diamond storm.

However I think SE is heading in the right direction with these newer Wards, but I just don't think the wards as of now can meet up to their expectations to be counted as a "I'm counting on you to get the job done." Oh shit somebody died and it was my fault.

What I'm trying to say is everything may sound good on paper but its just not practical with whats used in game play today that I see. I'd like to see more unique ways for Wards.

Before I forget, this is very similar to the Spirit thread in general section...Spirits should not be more powerful than BP Rage as you said0. With that....its almost the same concept really.

1) I'm talking about SCH charges. I'm using examples of a system already in place.

2) I have saved my party a couple of times by using Earthen Armor when we fight stuff that has a very bad AoE damage (Spike Flail once) or explodes (NIN NM mobs).

3) Things happen, you can't predict the future and adjust for it. You can, however, anticipate and plan for it.

4) I don't think many more avatars will be getting more BP:W soon. Ramuh, Carbuncle, Diabolos, and Fenrir are the only avatars I can still see getting BP:W still. All the celestial avatars will be getting a new BP:R soon (probably merit v2) but I don't anticipate anything more than what we have already.

5) Spirits can be used to proc yellow, in that thread I'm theorizing the usage of the spirits to give SMNs more usefulness for procing yellow.

[Soundwave]

1) I'm talking about SCH charges. I'm using examples of a system already in place.

2) I have saved my party a couple of times by using Earthen Armor when we fight stuff that has a very bad AoE damage (Spike Flail once) or explodes (NIN NM mobs).

3) Things happen, you can't predict the future and adjust for it. You can, however, anticipate and plan for it.

4) I don't think many more avatars will be getting more BP:W soon. Ramuh, Carbuncle, Diabolos, and Fenrir are the only avatars I can still see getting BP:W still. All the celestial avatars will be getting a new BP:R soon (probably merit v2) but I don't anticipate anything more than what we have already.

5) Spirits can be used to proc yellow, in that thread I'm theorizing the usage of the spirits to give SMNs more usefulness for procing yellow.

1.) I understand, I stated that this was not exactly like SCH so I think a few people heard the word charges and just thought exactly like SCH.

2.) We'll this can go so many ways because I'm sure your ls fights the mobs differently I do etc. So I'm gonna leave it at that.

3.) We are universal, so when we are in a party and we are being universal between Rage/Ward, and your party gets busted by nasty AoE, and your in the middle of your Rage...so now you gotta re-summon an avatar carby/Lev, and hope everybody is around you for a cure, unless you plan on cure bombing people to full health by that time I smell another AoE. I feel there is no right answer here but just all debatable in how the battle goes. Like you said you can't predict the future.

4.) I don't disagree however if that's the case they better raise the cap on M2 to 15or20.

5.)I've used my spirits to try to proc yellow a few times and successful but just not practical...however it would be nice to be able to command them yourself.

[Malamasala]

I just want to point out that "support" is a very general word. You can be "support heal", "support debuff", "suppert sleep", "support offense", "support defense". So SMN excelling in one of these, wouldn't hurt any of those excelling in the others. (Most likely we would be best at defensive wards, while BRD and COR will be better at offensive songs/rolls). Of course in this situation it just because a question if we are stealing SCH buff role, or if they took ours to begin with.

[Soundwave]

I just want to point out that "support" is a very general word. You can be "support heal", "support debuff", "suppert sleep", "support offense", "support defense". So SMN excelling in one of these, wouldn't hurt any of those excelling in the others. (Most likely we would be best at defensive wards, while BRD and COR will be better at offensive songs/rolls). Of course in this situation it just because a question if we are stealing SCH buff role, or if they took ours to begin with.

I've always felt as a support defense type summoner, my thought was to help keep your melee alive, so they could deal damage...this was pre-Abyssea....prime example was Einherjar.

[Henihhi]

Brain hurts from reading this thread. If anything they should lower BP delay.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Someone have information on the new formula for Earthen Ward/Noctoshield? I've only heard it got updated, and Wiki hasn't been updated since 75 of course.

Also, agreed with Heni and in addition perpetuation cost should be lowered.